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As I look at wiring for speakon connections, I have some questions:

 

- is speakon balanced? All of the conection diagrams I see have a 2 conductor cable hookup... this gives no way for a TRS connection if I needed to manually wire a speakon to 1/4", right?

 

- If an amp outputs with speakon, is there a point to using the NL4 connector to go to a single mono speaker, or is the NL2 sufficient?

 

i may think of more....

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If I'm not mistaken speaker bacles are not balanced and are not shielded. If the speaker is a 2 way and you're biamping you should use an nl2 if it's 3 way and you're tri-amping use the nl4. If you're running full range with either use an nl2. By the way, the post is worded a little funny. Might wanna check it. Just out of curiosity where are you from and how old are you? Jlo sure is a strange username:cool: Not trying to look down on you, sorry if that's how I come off, I'm just curious:)

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If you're biamping, you'll need at least an NL4, triamping you'll need NL8's. The number is an indication of the number of conductors. ;)

 

Speaker cables are not balanced, and are not shielded. They don't need to be. You shouldn't be using TRS plugs with speakers, this can potentially cause problems, especially if you're using regular shielded cable like mic cable. Speaker cables are 2 conductor, unshielded but usually twisted, and quite a bit larger guage than mic or line cables. Speaker cable is essentially the same as stranded electrical cable, similar to lamp wire. The wire used for sound has a rubber-type jacket around it, and has some strain relief built into the cable, but the wire itself is essentially the same. Many people use regular 12/2 or 12/4 SOOW electrical cable as speaker cable.

 

NL2 plugs will fit into NL2 or NL4 jacks, but NL4 plugs will not mate with NL2 jacks. That might be something to think about, I don't know. Something more to think about is that, at least in my experience, NL4's are built somewhat differently than NL2's, in that they seem sturdier and easier to wire. NL4's are the industry standard, and you'll rarely see NL2's. I don't think there's a big price difference between the two either.

 

If you need to build a cable from 1/4" to Speakon, the tip will go to the 1+ and the sleeve will go to 1-. And if you're using 2 conductor cable with NL4's, it's probably a good idea to NOT hook up the 1+ to 2+ and 1- to 2-, because if the cabinet happens to be bi-amp, you'll pop the horn real quick. Just a random thought. I've never even thought someone might do that before right now, so I don't know why I said it.

 

FWIW, Neutrik makes a Speakon to 1/4" adapter that works real well. I use them regularly. Audiopile sells them at a good price. If you've already got 1/4" speaker cables, you might consider this route.

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so far so good - thank sguys

 

 

next question -

 

 

When using speakon outputs on a bridged mono sub with speakon inputs... if i have an NL4 cable, do i need to worry about the 1+ and 2+ wires getting to the correct configuratin on the speaker (as prescribed for bridged operation) or is it automatically assumed that it will take care of itself if the cable is wired properly? and then can I run from the parrallel out one sub to the next like you would with a 1/4" cable or normand STILL not have to worry about pin and wire config?

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Originally posted by JLo

When using speakon outputs on a bridged mono sub with speakon inputs... if i have an NL4 cable, do i need to worry about the 1+ and 2+ wires getting to the correct configuratin on the speaker (as prescribed for bridged operation) or is it automatically assumed that it will take care of itself if the cable is wired properly? and then can I run from the parrallel out one sub to the next like you would with a 1/4" cable or normand STILL not have to worry about pin and wire config?

 

 

You really need to know how the speakon connectors on the sub cabinet and the amplifier are configured. Some cabinets are wired to use 1+/1-, some are wired to use 2+/2- (EAW LA400 for example) and some have a switch which allows you to go either way. They do this because speakon NL4 connectors are often used with 4 conductor cables in bi-amped systems, and often the 1+/1- terminals are used to drive the tops while the 2+/2- terminals drive the subs.

 

Some amplifiers may be used in bridge mode with a single speakon output. These are usually wired to the 1+/2+ terminal of the NL4 for bridged connections, and may use all 4 terminals for stereo connection to a single 4 conductor cable.

 

Personally, I would avoid the NL2 cable ends. I have never actually seen a cabinet or amplifier with a NL2 connector, so the NL4 cable end should plug in to anything you are likely to run into, and it can be wired to the configuration that you need. It is also the standard for professional audio.

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Originally posted by JLo

so far so good - thank sguys



next question -



When using speakon outputs on a bridged mono sub with speakon inputs... if i have an NL4 cable, do i need to worry about the 1+ and 2+ wires getting to the correct configuratin on the speaker (as prescribed for bridged operation) or is it automatically assumed that it will take care of itself if the cable is wired properly? and then can I run from the parrallel out one sub to the next like you would with a 1/4" cable or normand STILL not have to worry about pin and wire config?

 

 

Check the owner's manual for both the amp and the speakers, then check the NL4 cable.

 

There is no documented standard that I know of for any of this stuff; although, there seems to be somewhat common practices starting to emerge.

 

Generally an NL4 cable is constructed with 4 conductor cable, with the pins wired the same on both ends: Pin 1+ to Pin 1+, Pin 1- to Pin 1-, Pin 2+ to Pin 2+ and Pin 2- to Pin 2-. Also, common practice wiring is generally:

 

1) Red conductor to pins 1+

2) White conductor to pins 1-

3) Black conductor to pins 2+

4) Green conductor to pins 2-

 

Since all NL4 Female Cordends are the same (not mirror imaged pairs), at one end of the cable, the conductors have to be "crossed" somehow to terminate the correct conductors to the correct pins. I have seen many examples of "factory made" 4 conductor NL4 cable where the conductors are wired straight through. The problem with doing this is that two of the pins will be wired incorrectly.

 

And... just because the cable has NL4F ("F" for Female) ends doesn't necessarly mean it's a 4 conductor cable. I've seen many examples where two conductor cable stock was used and the conductors were split between two ea. termination points. Example: 2 conductor cable stock with the black conductor wired to pins 1- and 2- and the white conductor wired to 1+ and 2+.

 

There are wild variations in what's used and how it's done with amps and speaker cabinets concerning Speakon connectors. Some manufactures will use NL2 panel jacks and some use NL4 panel jacks. The NL2 panel jacks are fairly uncommon anymore, and as was previously explained: NL2F cordends will function in NL4M panel jacks.

 

Typically, for full range or two conductor applications, pins 1+ and 1- of NL4M panel jacks are used. Sometimes pins 1+ and pins 2+ are parallel wired together and pins 1- and pins 2- are parallel wired together on the panel jacks. One notable exception is bridge/mono panel jacks, which are generally wired pins 1+ as the pos and pin 2+ as the neg (although it might be the other way around: pin 1+ neg and pin 2+ pos). The QSC RMX series amps are an example of this. The wiring scheme of most all RMX series amps is (I believe):

 

1) Channel 1 Speakon:

A) 1- 1+ channel one output

B) 2- 2+ channel two output

C) 1+ POS 2+ NEG bridge output

 

2) Channel 2 Speakon:

A) 1- 1+ channel two output

B) Pins 2- 2+ unused

 

Like I said, there does seem to be some common practices, but they are far from universal, and the possibilities are something on the order of 4 factorial squared times 2 (about 1152 different possible combinations of amp/speaker cabinet/cable/connector combinations.... all of which could look about the same from a distance to the unknowing).

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Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound


They do this because speakon NL4 connectors are often used with 4 conductor cables in bi-amped systems, and often the 1+/1- terminals are used to drive the tops while the 2+/2- terminals drive the subs.

 

 

Generally, 1+/1- is the lows and/or subs and 2+/2- is the HF section. I can only think of one or two exceptions.

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Apologies for possible stating the obvious, but it might be worth mentioning that for biamped NL4 and triamped NL8 arrangements, it's usually going to be necessary to employ a patch panel to handle the wiring. While it's entirely possible to use one amp for both sub and mid-highs, and therefore enjoying a direct connection of NL4 into the amp, more often the power amp's output isn't correct for one or either speaker set, so two different amps have to be used, and obviously there has to be some way to get the two amp's outputs to the NL4 cordset.

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you guys rock, and thanks ecpecially for the post mark.

 

 

I guess I still don't have the question about bridging answered like I had hoped though.

 

Does bridging require a special cable, or si NL4 sufficient? and can two subs be daisychained in parrallel from one output to one input like this:

 

bridged amp pinned @ 1+/2+ -> NL4 cable -> input of sub #1 -> NL4 cable (f/m sub 1) -> input of sub #2

 

at least this is how it is done with 1/4" and I want to make sure I have it right with speakon as well.

 

 

thanks again

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Yes, if your output jack uses 1+/2+ then you need a cable that is wired 1+/2+ on the amp end and 1+/1- on the speaker end.

 

Be sure that your amp will run a bridged load of parallel subs. The amp must be rated to run 2 ohm loads in stereo operation to be able to run a 4 ohm load bridged.

 

In general, I discourage bridging due to several issues that you may or may not be aware of.

 

What amp and subs are you talking about?

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thank you andy - exactly what I needed to know

 

 

I have a QSC 1850 running into dual Yorkville LS808's... bridiging them will be fine and limiting and speaker management is in place. It's just making the change to speakon from 1/4" is a little daunting.

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'nother question -

 

can you wire speakon jacks in parallel like for floor boxes or wall jacks? Like wiring the 1+ to the 1+ etc. so as to have two jacks for one monitor send (as though these were across the stage from each other)

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Originally posted by Audiopile



Generally an NL4 cable is constructed with 4 conductor cable, with the pins wired the same on both ends: Pin 1+ to Pin 1+, Pin 1- to Pin 1-, Pin 2+ to Pin 2+ and Pin 2- to Pin 2-. Also, common practice wiring is generally:


1) Red conductor to pins 1+

2) White conductor to pins 1-

3) Black conductor to pins 2+

4) Green conductor to pins 2-


Since all NL4 Female Cordends are the same (not mirror imaged pairs), at one end of the cable, the conductors have to be "crossed" somehow to terminate the correct conductors to the correct pins. I have seen many examples of "factory made" 4 conductor NL4 cable where the conductors are wired straight through. The problem with doing this is that two of the pins will be wired incorrectly.


 

 

 

Mark - so what you are saying is that on one end of the cable it should be wired red 1+/white 1- (for example) and at the other end red 1-/white 1+ ???? am i reading this right

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Originally posted by JLo




Mark - so what you are saying is that on one end of the cable it should be wired red 1+/white 1- (for example) and at the other end red 1-/white 1+ ???? am i reading this right

 

Understanding "Speakon" might go easier once you have a couple of NL4FC ends and some cable in-front of you. I sense "the lightbulb" hasn't came on yet.

 

In answer to your above question: Both ends wired the same: red to 1+/ white to 1-

 

The whole Speakon thing will become much clearer once you wire up a 4 conductor cable... and it will become crystal clear once you (successfully and cleanly) wire up an 8 conductor cable. Gowahead... try it, both ends of an 8 x 10ga. conductor cable sporting NL8FC ends wired:

Pin 1+: Black

Pin 1-: White

Pin 2+: Red

Pin 2-: Green

Pin 3+: Brown

Pin 3-: Blue

Pin 4+: Orange

Pin 4-: Yellow

 

Guaranteed, by the time you get both ends wired up (correctly) the lightbulb will come on.

 

BTW: I believe the above listed color code and wiring sequence is the best for NL8... after days (weeks) of turning this over in my head and endless mock-up combinations (basically 8 factorial times two). This wiring sequence results in "some braiding" on both ends... which I believe is much better than no braiding on one end and massive braiding on the other end.

 

As Andy explained: The bridge/mono cable must be special wired (and I suggest labeled) for bridge operation. You'll need to wire it:

 

1) Amp end ( NL4F cord end must be used )

A) Red 1+

B) White 2+

 

2) Speaker end

A) Red 1+

B) White 1-

 

Of-course, if you're running bridge/mono... then you should probably pack along some "stereo mode" cables... since you have most of your eggs in one basket... and if you loose an amp during a performance, you're gonna probably need different cables to go to "plan B".

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Originally posted by JLo

'nother question -


can you wire speakon jacks in parallel like for floor boxes or wall jacks? Like wiring the 1+ to the 1+ etc. so as to have two jacks for one monitor send (as though these were across the stage from each other)

 

Yes, of course.

 

On this subject, I'm coming to the conclusion that the possibly best method for doing this is to wire up short pigtails on each panel jack, then wire-nut the pigtails and drivers wiring together at the junctions of the three way splits.

 

Does anybody have any thoughts on using wirenuts in high SPL environments?

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Originally posted by Audiopile


Does anybody have any thoughts on using wirenuts in high SPL environments?

 

 

nope, but (as i've learnt from you) - when in doubt, use heatshrink...

 

heatshrink over the wirenut (and covering a bit of the cable too) should provide a decent joint... no?

 

AS

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Originally posted by Audiopile


Yes, of course.


On this subject, I'm coming to the conclusion that the possibly best method for doing this is to wire up short pigtails on each panel jack, then wire-nut the pigtails and drivers wiring together at the junctions of the three way splits.


Does anybody have any thoughts on using wirenuts in high SPL environments?

 

 

I don't see why not. As long as you use the right size wire nut so it fits tight. The only problem I see is it coming loose, falling off, and wire touching bad stuff.

 

What you could do is solder the joints and throw wire nuts on them.

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Originally posted by ashivraj



nope, but (as i've learnt from you) - when in doubt, use heatshrink...


heatshrink over the wirenut (and covering a bit of the cable too) should provide a decent joint... no?


AS

 

I dunno? I've never tried wire-nuts in a speaker cabinet (that I can remember). I was goaded into wire-nutting my outlets in my shop... and so-far... so good (no smoke rolling out of any quad outlets). I suspect wire-nuts might be designed to work primarily with solid wire... and speaker wire is typically stranded. Soldering up a three way split on the back side of a panel loaded with parallel Speakon isn't all that eloquant (or easy). It doesn't work very well to make the splits at the termination points on the Speakon connectors. The wire-nut idea worked pretty good on all the three-way splits I have in my shop wiring 110V outlets.

 

I dunno?

 

Shrink tube is the chocolate frosting of wiring... it makes anything look good.

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Originally posted by Audiopile


Yes, of course.


On this subject, I'm coming to the conclusion that the possibly best method for doing this is to wire up short pigtails on each panel jack, then wire-nut the pigtails and drivers wiring together at the junctions of the three way splits.


Does anybody have any thoughts on using wirenuts in high SPL environments?

 

 

My personal rule is as follows....for wirenuts, the nut should only be a form of protection, not the primary mechanical connection. Stranded wires twisted together offer little or no strength, therefore only solid wire should be used, first twisted securely, trimmed ends, and then capped. The cap should then either be (preferably) shrinkwrapped or taped to insulate and keep the nut from loosening.

 

This all falls apart for mobile use...you should never use solid wire for mobile gear, and you simply can't get a good mechanical connection by twisting stranded wires; the vibration of movement and transport will certainly cause a failure. Soldering and then capping with a wirenut is acceptable. A crimped cap is fine too. I would shrinkwrap the assembly in both cases.

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Originally posted by Audiopile


I dunno? I've never tried wire-nuts in a speaker cabinet (that I can remember). I was goaded into wire-nutting my outlets in my shop... and so-far... so good (no smoke rolling out of any quad outlets). I suspect wire-nuts might be designed to work primarily with solid wire... and speaker wire is typically stranded. Soldering up a three way split on the back side of a panel loaded with parallel Speakon isn't all that eloquant (or easy). It doesn't work very well to make the splits at the termination points on the Speakon connectors. The wire-nut idea worked pretty good on all the three-way splits I have in my shop wiring 110V outlets.


I dunno?


Shrink tube is the chocolate frosting of wiring... it makes anything look good.

 

 

I used wire nuts on speaker cabling many times. It's copper to copper. As long as the nut is tight there are no problems. Of course I wouldn't think about using them in a exposed application but inside a speaker cabinet or rack is fine in my book. Hell I have more doubts about crimp on connectors. Well that's probably more doubt in the crimper or crimpee really........

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Originally posted by Audiopile


I suspect wire-nuts might be designed to work primarily with solid wire... and speaker wire is typically stranded.


Shrink tube is the chocolate frosting of wiring... it makes anything look good.

 

 

I used wire nuts in my suburban to wire up the speakers when I had to replace and relocate them in the back end. It was all I had at the time and was in a hurry so I just did it. So far so good. After about a year of driving (about 13-14k miles) over the bumpy rural roads and a couple of 4 wheeling trips into the mountains they are still holding strong. Wasn't my ideal hook-up but until they come loose I'm just going to leave them alone.

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+1 for the crimped connections -If done right- I've put on a bajillion of the crimp on cap connections over the years and never had a problem-but you must tug at each wire after crimping to make sure they're tight.

To me, wire nuts were made to go into electrical junction boxes where they will sit undistrurbed for decades-not much vibration. That said, I've used them when I've had to but always twist the wires with linesman's pliers (the one with the flat nose for twisting wires), then twist on the wirenut.

+1 on the heastshrink- unless it's hiding a solder job your ashamed of!

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I have used wire nuts (primarily orange and yellow size) for many years in rack breakouts, cabinet breakouts etc. You must install correctly and strain relief with zip ties to prevent mechanical damage. I have never had a failure and I've probably used several thousand!

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  • 10 years later...
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If you're biamping' date=' you'll need at least an NL4, triamping you'll need NL8's. The number is an indication of the number of conductors. ;)

Speaker cables are not balanced, and are not shielded. They don't need to be. You shouldn't be using TRS plugs with speakers, this can potentially cause problems, especially if you're using regular shielded cable like mic cable. Speaker cables are 2 conductor, unshielded but usually twisted, and quite a bit larger guage than mic or line cables. Speaker cable is essentially the same as stranded electrical cable, similar to lamp wire. The wire used for sound has a rubber-type jacket around it, and has some strain relief built into the cable, but the wire itself is essentially the same. Many people use regular 12/2 or 12/4 SOOW electrical cable as speaker cable.

NL2 plugs will fit into NL2 or NL4 jacks, but NL4 plugs will not mate with NL2 jacks. That might be something to think about, I don't know. Something more to think about is that, at least in my experience, NL4's are built somewhat differently than NL2's, in that they seem sturdier and easier to wire. NL4's are the industry standard, and you'll rarely see NL2's. I don't think there's a big price difference between the two either.

If you need to build a cable from 1/4" to Speakon, the tip will go to the 1+ and the sleeve will go to 1-. And if you're using 2 conductor cable with NL4's, it's probably a good idea to NOT hook up the 1+ to 2+ and 1- to 2-, because if the cabinet happens to be bi-amp, you'll pop the horn real quick. Just a random thought. I've never even thought someone might do that before right now, so I don't know why I said it.

FWIW, Neutrik makes a Speakon to 1/4" adapter that works real well. I use them regularly. Audiopile sells them at a good price. If you've already got 1/4" speaker cables, you might consider this route.[/quote']Perfect Place to post this question tho this thread is old. I would like to do almost exactly what you said not to do to prevent popping tweeters and I totally get and agree. All of my cable is NL4 even tho some is used as 2 conductor to avoid having to differentiate between NL4 and NL2 I've wired an output panel for bridge mono +1 +2 the rig is set up so I can now use any cable and everything just works. However two conductors of the cable are not used and the sub sounds much tighter when i use shorter lengths of cable due to dampening factor. If I wired up my output panel and the adapter at the sub as follows at first glance its pretty much idiot proof if someone plugs in a cable to the wrong cabinet it seems to me they've created a high impedance air gap (wink wink) but i haven't thought this through for more than a minute and would like someone else to check my math. +1-------|----- 1+-2--------|+2----|--------- 1--1-----|excuse my crude diagram. If the amps in bridge perfect. If its not. you get a whole bunch of nothing? am i right? or should I have thought about this more?
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