Members Mogwix Posted July 13, 2006 Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 I'm currently overhauling my band's PA system in order to better suit our progressing needs. I've placed the orders for all our outboard rack gear, our mixer is fine (24 ch peavey), but the whole front-end speaker system needs an overhaul. With some modifications, the current front end will become our monitor system. Anyways, current system:- 2x Peavey PV215 700w mains- Peavey PV2600 (2x 900w @ 4 ohms)- Peavey 24-channel mixer (basic basic mixer, but gets the job done, and yes, 24 mic channels! No useless stereo channels) This system, even with the instrument amps (bass and guitar, though these were kept low), could all be powered on a single 15a/120v circuit without tripping the power bar's breaker (heavy-duty construction-grade 6 outlet power bar). But, this is going to change I know with the new system coming. New system! Front End:- 2x Peavey SP2 1000w mains - 2x Peavey SP218x 2400w subs- Peavey PV1600 Bi-pack amp, for tops- Peavey CS4080HZ amp, for subs- Peavey mixer still, may upgrade to an Allen & Heath down the road- Peavey something crossover Monitors: - 2x Peavey PV215 sidefills (or I'll salvage the parts, and make 4 monitors with the two extra compression drivers and CD horns I have)- Peavey PV2600 amp FOH Rack:- Furman M8D power conditioner- BBE 482i sonic maximizer- DBX 231 dual 31band graphic eq- DBX 266xl comp/gate (kick, vocals)- Behringer Ultramizer Pro Now, I'm not an electrician so with this system running full-tilt, I need advice on how to get power to this. Espescially keeping it mobile. Can I take care of it all with some sort of breakout system from a generator's 30-amp output, if need be, but I know a few venues we regular have a 4-pin 50a outlet (I think that's what it is) so that's an option as well. Thoughts? Opinions? Or should I just go find an electrician and bug the hell out of him with my questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted July 13, 2006 Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Actually, you can probably run your whole new system on two 20A circuits, so you shouldn't have too much trouble. You'd likely need seperate circuits for lights, but you don't list those, so I'll assume that's not a concern at the moment. If you add more stuff, or lights, a RacPac from Motion Labs might be in order. A 50A 125/250v RacPac with 6 20A circuits is probably the most useful in a bar-type environment, and is also compatible with many generators. If you know a few places that have a 4-wire 220v range plug on the wall, a cable to go from that into your Rac-Pac is all you need to tie in. If you have a cable to plug into a 30A recepticle as well, you'll be covered there too. Bare wire and cams get a little more tricky, so if you forsee a need for that, it might be a good idea to have an electrician as a close friend. The downside of something like that is that they're a little expensive for a small operator, as the RacPac itself is right around $300, and 50A twistlock connectors aren't exactly cheap. They're between $50 and $100 on the retail level, depending on where you get them, so even if you could get them at dealer cost you'd still have a fairly significant cost just in connectors, not to mention wire. 6/4 SO is roughly $3.50/ft right now, so that adds up pretty quickly. Some slightly less expensive options are available from Ampshop, although they're not quite as rugged as Motion Labs. But again, I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about yet, as long as you can get two seperate 20A circuits. Even two 15A circuits would probably be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 So it would be better just to invest in a RacPac, for future expansion options? We'll most definitely be looking into a small scale lighting system in the future, as well as possibly more front end speakers and whatnot. So what would you suggest I run on each circuit (I've yet to see any 20a circuits around here, so let's assume I can find two seperate 15a circuits), and how can I ensure I don't get any ground-loop interference? Maybe get another 15a power conditioner for the amp rack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted July 13, 2006 Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Skip the conditioner on the amp rack, or any power amp. It won't help with anything that can actually hurt the amps anyway, and will do absolutely nothing for ground loops. If you want to invest in a RacPac, I think it's absolutely a good idea. If you've got the money, the right one will definitely be useful for a long, long time. Also, it will help with ground loops, because all your equipment will share a common ground. If you have to make do with individual circuits, I would suggest putting all your backline, processing, console, and monitor amp on one 20A circuit, and the other 2 amps on another 20A circuit. I'm guessing 15A circuits would be OK as well, although it depends on how much other crap (neon lights and dart machines) are on the circuits. If you have more than 2 circuits available, feel free to move amps over to them, but I'd suggest keeping backline and the console on the same circuit, because you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 So I think it's set on the RacPac. Just a question, I'm looking at the L14-30 in/thru model with 8 douplex outlets, and it says it has 4 20a circuits. It was my understanding that the L14-30 connector is a 30a connection, how does this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted July 13, 2006 Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Even though it has 4 20A circuits, the box assumes that there is a 30A main breaker protecting the entire thing. So you can still put a full 20A on a single circuit, but if you put more than 30A on the leg you'll trip the main breaker. This works great in an ideal situation, but if you're using a 30A RacPac on a 50A 220v circuit, you should have a 30A 2-pole breaker immediately before the 20A circuits in the RacPac to keep you from drawing the full potential of 40A on cable that's only rated for 30A. A 50A RacPac on a 30A circuit would need no additional protection since the building's 30A breaker should trip if you go over 30A, although if you plugged it in to a 60A or larger circuit, you would need a 50A breaker protecting it to keep from drawing the potential 60A through wire rated for 50A. I hope that all makes sense, but really the idea is that even though the individual circuits add up to more than the input amperage, the main breaker will keep you from drawing more power than you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 13, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 That rig will easily run on a pair of 15a circuits. I've run more than this plus a tube amp backline on 2 15's with no problem. What is most important at this stage of the game is to ensure you've got plenty of good quality heavy extension cords and quads to plug in. 12/3 SO cord is good, 10/3 is better if you're going 100 feet or more. If you use 20a Edison plug ends, you can make short adapter cables with 15a Edison. In this way if you get lucky and have a 20a circuit to plug into you can fully utilize it safely, and if not, the adapters let you use the same cordset on 15a circuits. When not used for this, the adapters cables can be used as short normal extension cords, as 20a female ends accept both 15 and 20 amp plugs. A pair of 100' cords with a quad box should handle your needs pretty well. Plug the amps into one, the FOH gear and backline in the other, or put one of the amps on the FOH circuit to share the load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Alright cool, thanks a lot for the answers. I'll look into the RacPac (or at least something similar) for power distro but it's nice to know 2 15a circuits can power me good in the meantime. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted July 13, 2006 Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Just curios with the main amps, why not use the PV3800 with the 1600bi-pack, this would eliminate the need for an external crossover all together and better match the ratings of the SP218 (long term)? Also, lose the BBE and the Behr ultramizer. NOT something that should be in the signal chain. With those gone you can add another dual 31 EQ or another 266xl. The power conditioners on the amps aren't useful and may trip under heavy loads. Just a thought...p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Originally posted by Unalaska Just curios with the main amps, why not use the PV3800 with the 1600bi-pack, this would eliminate the need for an external crossover all together and better match the ratings of the SP218 (long term)? The PV3800 only puts out 1300w per channel at 4 ohms, the CS4080HZ can more adequately power the subwoofers, with 2040w per channel at 4ohms. If I was going with the 118s I'd get the PV3800, but the 218s came highly reccomended, as half our shows are outdoor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 13, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Originally posted by Mogwix The PV3800 only puts out 1300w per channel at 4 ohms, the CS4080HZ can more adequately power the subwoofers, with 2040w per channel at 4ohms.If I was going with the 118s I'd get the PV3800, but the 218s came highly reccomended, as half our shows are outdoor. 1300w is right about where you should be to power a pair of Pro Riders. More power is a case of poor return on investment, and will lower reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted July 13, 2006 Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Didn't dboomer bounce in here awhile back and announce that Peavey was releasing a comparable product to the RacPac? Anyone seen or heard anything about those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted July 13, 2006 Members Share Posted July 13, 2006 Ditch the BBE, the Behringer, and the graphic and go with the VSX 26. It should have preset EQ's for all your speakers in it. My $.02 Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 13, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Originally posted by soul-x Didn't dboomer bounce in here awhile back and announce that Peavey was releasing a comparable product to the RacPac? Anyone seen or heard anything about those? Yes, he did show a distro from Peavey, and no, I haven't seen hide nor hair of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv 1300w is right about where you should be to power a pair of Pro Riders. More power is a case of poor return on investment, and will lower reliability. Ah, so giving each sub 1300w will give me more then enough output for outdoor gigs and the like? Cool! Thanks! And about the BBE and behringer, those are some pieces I found made a good enough difference in the signal chain, definitely pumped up my current PV215s. If I find they don't really do that much I may or may not sell them. I'm looking at the VSX 26 and it seems pretty cool, but it's about the same price as those 3-pieces of gear, whoa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 14, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Originally posted by Mogwix Ah, so giving each sub 1300w will give me more then enough output for outdoor gigs and the like?Cool! Thanks! That's how I power speakers....at or near the RMS rating, not more than 1.5x. I expect my investments to last, and this is the best way I can help that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv That's how I power speakers....at or near the RMS rating, not more than 1.5x. I expect my investments to last, and this is the best way I can help that happen. I was going on advice from the peavey forums, they told me to try to match up the amp's power with the speaker's program rating. But the RMS power seems to be the better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted July 14, 2006 Members Share Posted July 14, 2006 I'm using dual 18's as well, 1100w each, no more... also dropping the wattage will GREATLY open up AC choices when you get to a venue...p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2006 Originally posted by Unalaska I'm using dual 18's as well, 1100w each, no more...also dropping the wattage will GREATLY open up AC choices when you get to a venue...p Awesome, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted July 15, 2006 Members Share Posted July 15, 2006 Originally posted by Mogwix I'm looking at the VSX 26 and it seems pretty cool, but it's about the same price as those 3-pieces of gear, whoa And it does the same job, only better, than all those pieces, plus it has the Feedback Ferret. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2006 Originally posted by preacherman672 And it does the same job, only better, than all those pieces, plus it has the Feedback Ferret.Les Cool, cool. I'm looking into it. I'm not a fan of automatic feeback detectors but that's fine. thanks for the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 I think I'll bump this up instead of making a new thread. Okay, I'm looking into buying myself a PA which will be used to power band rehearsals, and some medium-sized gigs, as well as a basis for my own sound company to provide affordable sound for other local bands and DJ at events etc. It has basically come down to two options, yorkville or peavey. I'd buy them new and finance, and it's down to the cost/quality ratio and the store's financing option (two stores, one peavey and other yorkville dealers). Band is a loud hard rock group, looking to pump out as much volume as we can. On our meagre salaries. NOTE: All prices are canadian dollar So, first the yorkville setup. - 2x E15 tops; $760 ea - 2x LS800P powered subs; $1300 ea - 1x AP2020 power amp, tops; $1200? - 1x EP1215 processor; $?? __________________ approx. $5,520 (or $4220 with one sub instead of two) This store offers a 6 mo. no interest no payment financing option where I walk in walk out with PA and have 6 months to pay it off. hmmm, not sure if I can handle $5500 in 6 months, but I have a band to help me out and I can pay them back later, or not even since they'll be using it too. I'm not a fan of yorkville myself but whatever, it's an option. Advantage here, is physical size, it's smaller than the peavey system, and I'm not sure how yorkville's elite series compares to peavey's SP series, higher quality? Now, the peavey setup. - 2x SP2 tops; $580 - 2x SP118 subs; $600 (or so, possibly more, not in stock now) - PV1600 bipack amp; $800 or so - PV3800 amp; $1200 or so __________________ approx. $4360 This store offers a monthly payment plan, 13 months, unsure of interest charge but it's not much. I have amazing credit at this store. I can definitely handle this plan. I'm leaning towards this option because it's cheaper, I love peavey stuff, and it's expandable into the band's new PA. So, out of these two systems, what would you choose? I can't really go with any other brands because not local stores stock anything else except crappy stuff (alto, behringer, eww) and if I were to order from the peavey dealer, prices are marked up a fair amount Note that this will be MY PA, seperate from the band's PA which is listed at the start, that will come through as a band effort (which we will sell and distribute funds evenly should band break up), or will possibly come to us through a grant from a local organization, like how our current PA came to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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