Members soul-x Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Hi everyone. I'm a one-man-band and am looking for a portable P.A. I'm hoping to find something with two 15" molded cabinets and a 12 Ch box mixer. Hopefully it'll come with some high current speaker cables, stands, and maybe a couple mics, too. I have $1199.99 (USD) to spend, but could put another $59.99 toward shipping. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Soul-x, You can get a decent and portable rig for that budget (~$1,200) if you are patient and look to buy used. New, you're limited. Off the top of my head, a couple thoughts. You appear to be leaning towards an MF or Carvin "Package" deal (i.e. cables, mics stands etc.) In most cases, these are BAD deals, as they throw in inferior products (low-end mics, thin and easily broken cables, flimsy stands etc.) top make ithe offer look like a deal. Think modularly - buy better gear in pieces that will last you longer rather than an all in one package. This way you can do your reseach and buy with an eye towards future upgrades. Plan to spend most of your money on the speakers and a good mic. These two elements have the largest effect on your sound. As for a mixer, Carvin, Yamaha and Yorkville make powered mixers w/ 12 + channels and decent power for a one man act. However, for portability and for better sound, I would lean towards a couple powered speakers and a passive mixer. Start with one good powered speaker, a good mic and a decent used 16 channel passive mixing board with your budget (along with stands and mic cables), and you are up and running right away. Then add a second speaker when you can afford it. Trust me, a bi-amped powered speaker is so much easier and sounds so much better for us amateurs; I finally made this jump a while back and the difference is tremendous. A couple questions..... Mixer:Why 12 channels for your mixer? Do you need FX or other processing (eq, etc.)? Monitoring capability? Speakers:Why 15"? These are obviously less portable than 12" Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted July 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Singin' Dave Soul-x, You can get a decent and portable rig for that budget (~$1,200) if you are patient and look to buy used. New, you're limited. ...You appear to be leaning towards an MF or Carvin "Package" deal (i.e. cables, mics stands etc.) In most cases, that are BAD deals. ...Buy better gear in pieces that will last you longer... This way you can do your reseach and buy with an eye towards future upgrades. Hmmmm... That seems like pretty good advice. Should I base my decision on how many "watts" it has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 That's quite a budget. Seems like you're looking for quality.... Only the best for your clients who pay good money to go and see you. How about something like this? http://www.behringer.com/EUROPOWER-PACK-3/index.cfm?lang=ENG Should be around 1000$ or so (depending on the dealer since it is a special offer) and comes with all kinds of accessories....There are a few other companies who offer almost professional quality at cheap as humanly possible prices usually with a 1 year warranty. Once you experience the limitations of these systems, or have one break down and have to wait for it to get repaired, even have to ship it back in some cases, you`ll be more than willing to spend an extra 46% or more for something truly professional that will come with a real warranty. Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Watts are only part of the equation. You do want to match your speakers watt rating to your power as best you can (do a search here..tons of info on power amp matching etc.), but another vital metric is speaker "efficiency" (sometimes called sensitivity). Speaker efficiency determines how much of the power a speaker receives is transferred into SPL or "loudness" that comes out of the speaker. It is measured (and listed in mfr specs) as XXdb@1w@1m. Many lower brands will have efficiency ratings leass than 97db@1w@1m, while better speakers will list closer ro 100db @1w@1m. Within this rating, it is generally accepted that for every 3db more "efficiency" you get, you get 100% more volume from your speakers. Let's say I have a power amp (either internal in a powered mixer or external in a rack) pushing 400w into a speaker at 8 ohms and that speaker is rated at 96db@1qw@1m. I then swap out the speaker for a more efficient one rated at 99db@1w@1m and give it the same exact power (wattage). The second speaker will sound TWICE as loud with all other factors being the same (gain/mixer levels the same etc.). And the less you have to push power at a speaker, generally the cleaner it will sound and the longer it will last. So, you can see this is an important factor and one of the reasons people here recommend investing in good efficient speakers. Of course, dubious mfr specs exist here as elsewhere. Now, to take this one step further, a powered speaker does not list efficiency, but will rate its SPL, or "loudness". That's because most powered speakers are pretty efficient due to internal bi-amping and tuning at the factory. But take all this with a large grain of salt. I know just enough to know I know nothing here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted July 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Al Poulin That's quite a budget. Seems like you're looking for quality.... Only the best for your clients who pay good money to go and see you. How about something like this? http://www.behringer.com/EUROPOWER-PACK-3/index.cfm?lang=ENG Do you think this system would be a good investment? I want my stuff to last and resale well. I also won't risk breakdown during a show. I would hate to disappoint my clients. Hopefully, the vender and manufacturer will support all my needs in the future -- That is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted July 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Singin' Dave Watts are only part of the equation. You do want to match your speakers watt rating to your power as best you can (do a search here..tons of info on power amp matching etc.), but another vital metric is speaker "efficiency" (sometimes called sensitivity). OK. So you're saying that when choosing a speaker, watts may not be as important as spl produced. Maybe I should just listen to the speakers to make sure they're loud enough and sound good enough to satisfy me. Would that be a good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by soul-x Hmmmm... That seems like pretty good advice. Should I base my decision on how many "watts" it has? Absolutely. How many watts will tell you how loud it is and how good it sounds. It even tells you how well the product will work in adverse conditions when pushed to the limit. Since all manufacturers mesure watts the same way, this is the most accurate number on which to base all your pro audio purchases. Just remember however, that you must use high current speaker cable to get those watts. If not, your system will end up sounding like those budget EAW and Meyer rigs Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 As much as I love being sarcastic in your thread, Soul-X, I can`t help but think the next thread to be posted will be titled ''You guys are a bunch of assholes'' but...whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted July 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Al Poulin Absolutely. How many watts will tell you how loud it is and how good it sounds. I don't believe you and will heed Dave's advice. I'll try the speakers to see they sound good and are loud enough. I'll pay less attention to "watts" except in regards to recommended powering. And I'll choose a vendor and manufacturer with history for great product support. So, Why are cheap cables, mics, and stands a problem? They're just accessories. They shouldn't have any effect on my performance -- should they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by soul-x I do not believe you and will heed Dave's advice. It makes a lot more sense. I will listen to the speakers to see if they sound good and are loud enough. I will pay less attention to "watts" except in regards to recommended powering. I will also choose a vendor and manufacturer with a history for excellent product support. Why are the cheap cables, mics, and stands an issue? They're just accessories. They shouldn't have any affect on performance -- should they? Vocals are overrated and it`s not that important they be intelligible at all times. If you have enough watts and everything is as loud and distorted as possible, no one will notice. A cable that breaks often makes sure you don`t forget what plugs into what and improves your trouble shooting skills. And remember, using products from reputable companies is not important unless you plan to be noticed by your customers, hope to one day get better paying gigs and maybe even impress your clients....but if you were trying to do that, you wouldn't be buying one of these systems, would you? Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 18, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 You know, I don't post much here any more, but I figured I'd come out of retirement when I read this thread. You guys all make me sick; if it's not a big expensive top-dollar system like Carvin, you guys all snear and look down your noses. Some of us don't have that kind of money and have to buy used or closeout junk like JBL, EAW and Meyer. In fact just the other day I saw that top bands are buying their systems from someplace called Clair Bros. I can only imagine how broke you'd have to be to buy from a company that named itself after the guy and his brother. Please do me a favor and stop bragging about your Carvin systems. Not all of us can afford the PM-15's superb sound that surpasses the competition because of hi-end components and thick ABS enclosures for solid bass output. We do the best we can with Yamaha, Peavey, and the others. So lay off, or I'll have to come out of retirement in a few more hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv You know, I don't post much here any more, but I figured I'd come out of retirement when I read this thread.You guys all make me sick; if it's not a big expensive top-dollar system like Carvin, you guys all snear and look down your noses. Some of us don't have that kind of money and have to buy used or closeout junk like JBL, EAW and Meyer. In fact just the other day I saw that top bands are buying their systems from someplace called Clair Bros. I can only imagine how broke you'd have to be to buy from a company that named itself after the guy and his brother.Please do me a favor and stop bragging about your Carvin systems. Not all of us can afford the PM-15's superb sound that surpasses the competition because of hi-end components and thick ABS enclosures for solid bass output. We do the best we can with Yamaha, Peavey, and the others. So lay off, or I'll have to come out of retirement in a few more hours. I feel your pain. Last Saturday, the Nady 9-way double 15s I was suppose to be using for an outdoor concert suddenly blew (I`m not sure how that could happen) I went to the music store to get a replacement and was so happy when I saw a Behringer rig ready to go, but it was rented (of course)....and I ended up having to use a 10000 watt Turbosound (or something like that) rig instead. Why do they even stock these no name manufacturers.... Al Poulin - PArty-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 18, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Al Poulin Why do they even stock these no name manufacturers.... +1 We all know how happy I was with the Kustom 10" monitors we rented. They handle the highs, and the lows. What more can you ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv +1We all know how happy I was with the Kustom 10" monitors we rented. They handle the highs, and the lows. What more can you ask? So you finally got a taste of what the pros use... Those must have cost you a fortune to rent. I`ve been wanting to try those out. Did they have that thing inside them that seperates the frequencies and sends them to the different drivers or is that in their top of the line speakers only? Lucky guy! I bet the band was blown away by the monitors that night. If only everyone could be so lucky. You better not become a snob now that you've had a taste of Kustom quality! Al Poulin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv We all know how happy I was with the Kustom 10" monitors we rented. They handle the highs, and the lows. What more can you ask? That they fill the room with the same volume everywhere. In fact they are louder in the back so the performer doesn't have to hear it up close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 18, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Al Poulin I bet the band was blown away by the monitors that night. As soon as I turned up the monitor send. You have no idea how they were blown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv As soon as I turned up the monitor send. You have no idea how they were blown away. Would you say they were so clear and studio like that you would use them in your surround sound system or connect them to your TV? I heard some Carvin models were capable of this clarity also. But we're talking mega $$$ here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 18, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Al Poulin Would you say they were so clear and studio like that you would use them in your surround sound system or connect them to your TV? I heard some Carvin models were capable of this clarity also. But we're talking mega $$$ here.... The way I had them configured for the gig, they were completely transparent. Would I use them for my surround sound or TV? WOW, I don't know....that's a really demanding test of SR gear. I'd probably only use Carvin for that. Or maybe Bill Fitzmaurice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 This thread is so confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 18, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Mogwix This thread is so confusing ...pretty authentic, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv You know, I don't post much here any more, but I figured I'd come out of retirement when I read this thread.You guys all make me sick; if it's not a big expensive top-dollar system like Carvin, you guys all snear and look down your noses. Some of us don't have that kind of money and have to buy used or closeout junk like JBL, EAW and Meyer. In fact just the other day I saw that top bands are buying their systems from someplace called Clair Bros. I can only imagine how broke you'd have to be to buy from a company that named itself after the guy and his brother.Please do me a favor and stop bragging about your Carvin systems. Not all of us can afford the PM-15's superb sound that surpasses the competition because of hi-end components and thick ABS enclosures for solid bass output. We do the best we can with Yamaha, Peavey, and the others. So lay off, or I'll have to come out of retirement in a few more hours. + infinity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by Axisplayer That they fill the room with the same volume everywhere. In fact they are louder in the back so the performer doesn't have to hear it up close. I think I'll "pas" on that type of thing. I want mine loud and garbled up close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted July 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Ok, based on the posts I've read here, I'll summarize what I've been told so far: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 18, 2006 Members Share Posted July 18, 2006 Originally posted by soul-x Ok, based on the posts I've read here, I'll summarize what I've been told so far: Unless it is a transmission line design. Then,the more to turn it down,the louder it gets. (oops,am I in the wrong thread?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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