Members jpand2071 Posted November 2, 2006 Members Share Posted November 2, 2006 Hi All, We're looking to upgrade our console from the current Mackie SR32:4 we're using now. The first aux master has started to crackle during use, and I take this as a sign of things to come. I am somewhat familiar with the A&H GL2400 Series, and have examined this console as a suitable upgrade. I haven't seen much else new, except the Soundcraft (Lx series i believe.) Anything I should look for used? Criteria:preferrably 32 channels (can deal with 24)FOH and Mon capability.sweepable midsmatrixgroup inserts(preferrably, but can do without). Any ideas? Budget is around $2500 Thanks-Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted November 2, 2006 Members Share Posted November 2, 2006 Midas Venice. Not sure if you'll find one for that price used, but if you do, buy it. It'll blow the doors off anything AHB or Mackie ever dreamed of making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members milesdf Posted November 2, 2006 Members Share Posted November 2, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 Midas Venice. Not sure if you'll find one for that price used, but if you do, buy it. It'll blow the doors off anything AHB or Mackie ever dreamed of making. Disagreed. Way too expensive for what it does, the're really scare on the used market and when they show up there about 1500$ more than the budget for the 32 channel frame (24 mono channels). Not to mention the fact that it only effectively has 4 monitor sends, two of the auxes are locked post fader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 yea, I really don't like the mixer either... 32 frame .. I would look in to allen and heath, the 2200 (2400??) has what you need, and I think ti is a very nice mixer. the 3300 is the bigger brother, and is a better mixer, I really liked the eq on teh 4000 series too.. I guess, that in my opinion A+H has hit the nail spot on with what tehy offer, and how they justifi steping up the next higher class. other then that, I can only think of maybe the yamahas, though, for that frame size, the only modle I know of that would work is the ga32, or something like that. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 It depends on what you are looking for, an Allen and Heath will do the job and then some (I used to run a GL-3300 40 channel in an installed setup), but the Venice has got to be one of the best boards out there that comes close to the price range.... Price is a huge factor, it walways is, but I thik once you check out the Venice you'll see why folks go nuts over them, great sound, great quality, I could go on and on..... For the $$ I'd say look into the A-H2400, you can get the 32 channel for that.... IMHO any A-H console would be an upgrade from your current board (not a big fan of the 24:4 or 32:4...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 If you can't hear the difference between a Venice pre and any other console in it's price range, then it doesn't really matter what you're using, buy the cheapest POS you can find. The Venice is without question audibly superior to ANYTHING AHB or Mackie makes to anyone with ears. If you need more than 4 monitor mixes you should be running a separate console anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpand2071 Posted November 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 I've used the venice before, and I think its a terrific console. The reason I didn't mention it is because it is out of our price range, and I don't think I've ever seen one used. A used venice for $2500 would be perfect... Just to clarify, I do like the GL 2400,(I like the 3300 even more, but again out of our price range). I just want to make sure I'm examining all my options. Thanks for the responses so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 If you can't hear the difference between a Venice pre and any other console in it's price range, then it doesn't really matter what you're using, buy the cheapest POS you can find. The Venice is without question audibly superior to ANYTHING AHB or Mackie makes to anyone with ears. If you need more than 4 monitor mixes you should be running a separate console anyway. 100% disagree, I don't find it to have a significately better "sound" then the A+H. To be honest, I don't think either of them really have much of a sound at all. I am just saying that given the choise between the 2 I would go with the A+H, due to its better lay out, and less confusing aux system. The cost saveing is a bonus. Also , I know that you like your all encompising statments like "ANYTHING AHB or Mackie makes to anyone with ears" But really I think the larger A+H stuff is really world class, have you ever used the top gl and ml series? I mixed on a MH4 a few weeks ago, - so what it worked, could have done the same job with a XL4 or a GL4000, and I don't think anyone would have known the differance. "If you need more than 4 monitor mixes you should be running a separate console anyway. "I think you lack an understanding of what many bands are trying to do. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 How come some folks are so sure it's the preamps that make all the difference in the sound... I can think of several far more important areas in a console that are at least as responsible. For example, the output line drivers. They are operating with very large signal swing, and driving very long lines as well. Just as important as the mic pre IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Squier Fat Telecaster Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 Comparing Mackie 32.8 preamps to Midas Verona preamps: When the Mackie clips it ain't pretty. The Verona doesn't clip even at +18 The preamp issue has a lot to how hard you can slam it with a hot signal and not sound like crap. Back to the topic: Either A&H or Soundcraft at the price level are great choices. The Chinese Mackie Onyx are probably good bets too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audioeast Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 I would have to agree the venice sounds better than both the SC and A&H, but IMO the 2400 is layed out better and had mor features, the venice is a goofy lil board. and its too pricey for end users (more a small sound co. desk) The soundcraft is also decent but lacks pads, and ability to assgn groups indepently. IMO the GL2400 is the best choice for your $2500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 For what it's worth, and I'm not sure it's true of all A&H boards, but.... When our sound guy, who repairs pro audio stuff for a production company for a living, tested my A&H Mixwiz he found that clipping really occurs at a much higher signal than indicated on the LED's of the board. My take is.... Good because you're not clipping when you think you are so the board still sounds good. Bad because you're unnecessarily raising the noise floor because what's being represented to you as clipping really isn't and the board has more to give. Kind of a built in "oops factor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 Originally posted by kevinnem I think you lack an understanding of what many bands are trying to do. Kev. LOL, that's pretty funny. After 25+ years of pro touring, I think I got a pretty good understanding of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carey D Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 Good because you're not clipping when you think you are so the board still sounds good. Bad because you're unnecessarily raising the noise floor because what's being represented to you as clipping really isn't and the board has more to give. Kind of a built in "oops factor". Clipping starts at just over +21dB. The PEAK indicator lights 5dB before clipping as a warning to the operator that they are approaching clipping. If it were to light at the clipping point then it is too late... Regards, Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 the GL2400/32 looks perfect for your desires. I think it's more though. Isn't the street $ on the 24 frame like $2k? It'll sound great, especially after the Mackie's Midrange smearing and lack of decent EQ. There's a lot of stuff crammed into the AH strip. How's your eyesight? . The Venice is a fine board too, a little dissappointing for the price actually, but you can argue with it's sound, which I don't believe is so clearly superior to the A&H to make a broad blanket statement, which are always red flags to me anyhow. The 4 sends, lack of phase reverse, fairly simple EQ on the Midas are sometimes dissappointing, but rarely. I have 2 of the Venice 32 jobbies. I do use my GL2200 quite often, it's lighter too.. I should be running a separate console for more than 4 monitors, or simply needing sends for that matter? That's funny actually. On the topic of how long someone has been doing things: that doesn't tell me anything of value as to whether I'd like your mix if I was at one of your shows does it? It does however say that you've done a good job and are still in demand. I'm cool with that. Longevity means you've done the job and obvously aquired skills and wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 Originally posted by telemike Comparing Mackie 32.8 preamps to Midas Verona preamps:When the Mackie clips it ain't pretty. The Verona doesn't clip even at +18The preamp issue has a lot to how hard you can slam it with a hot signal and not sound like crap. If you are clipping the preamps, you get what you deserve IMO. It's like saying the soup's too salty because you added too much salt, therefore salt is a bad spice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DunedinDoug Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 Originally posted by jpand2071 Hi All, We're looking to upgrade our console from the current Mackie SR32:4 we're using now. The first aux master has started to crackle during use, and I take this as a sign of things to come. I am somewhat familiar with the A&H GL2400 Series, and have examined this console as a suitable upgrade. I haven't seen much else new, except the Soundcraft (Lx series i believe.) Anything I should look for used? -Joe We recently made the move from the Mackie 32:4 to the GL2400 after surveying the field for awhile. We even considered the new Mackies and Peaveys coming to market. We have no regrets whatsoever with our choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 I will admit the lack of a phase invert on the Venice sucks, I'd take an invert switch over the phantom LED for sure. However, my workaround, since when mixing on these desks (or any small frame desk) it's unlikely I'd be running multiple mics on a single source except for maybe a bass DI and mic, I have a couple inline switchable ones tht I stick on those channels if I need to invert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpand2071 Posted November 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 Thanks for the responses...given the limited budget we're working with, it looks like the 2400 is the best choice. I was pretty sure of this when i posted the thread, but wanted some more opinions. I'll still keep an eye out for anything used. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickkreuzer Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 I've had a venice and a AH GL2400. I'll agree that side by side there is a difference. The Midas IMO, sounds better. Really does. Finding one for $2500 will be tough. If you do, let me know. I'll get another. I think the 2400 is a fantastic deal in the price range. You'd be hard pressed to find anything better in that price range. I really like the flexibility too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 I worked a little on a 2400 last night as a monitor console... very acceptable piece of gear for a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RandyMorter Posted November 12, 2006 Members Share Posted November 12, 2006 Sorry to butt in, but without the search function I'm having a hard time finding mixer discussions... I'm looking at putting together a monitor system, used just for vocals while practicing. However, just in case the system might be used for mains later on, I'm thinking I should get a mixer that would suffice, say with 24 input channels. I was looking at the Yamaha MG2414FX and the A&H PA20, both around $1000. I'm guessing these are quite a bit lower quality than the ones you're discussing here. Do you have any comments about these mixers, or are they not worth bothering with? If used for a FOH system, I expect that there'd be a number of mics on the drums, 3 guitar amps, bass, 3-4 vox, doing classic rock. Any help or advice is appreciated - Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 12, 2006 Members Share Posted November 12, 2006 For a monitor system, you might look for something with better eq and more aux outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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