Members bmusic Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 Hi folks, I've always craved the 'real' sound of an unplugged acoustic, yet only plugged in. I really don't like the sound of my plugged in acoustics. I usually use a Martin D-19 with a piezo (thinline maybe?) thru a Baggs Para-acoustic DI to the PA. It beefs up the sound but it still sounds thin and dry and tinny. It varies by what PA I'm running thru - sometimes it doesn't sound too bad. I also have an SJ-200 with a Sunrise pickup. Still...tinny and thin. I've tried a Sans Amp DI as well, but that tends to sound more distorted. Lastly, I have a Taylor 714-CE with Fishman preamp and that probably sounds the best. However it can be boxy and I'd like to play a thick-bodied guitar like Martin or Gibson. I usually run EQ pretty flat as I don't know the nuances very well. Any suggestions? How can I get that wood sound/warmth back in? I have my eye on a Hummingbird but scared to plug it in. Blah! thanks! brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 I usually just use a good active DI, like a Countryman or an EWI LDB-101. I don't particularly like the sound of any of the Baggs or Sansamp type stuff, I like to keep it simple. Sometimes I EQ at the board, but not very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 Is mic'ing the guitar an option? I think that give you more of a realistic accoustic guitar sound. However, it makes it alot harder to pull-off in a performance environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmusic Posted November 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 micing's usually not an option as I'm often with a band, but I can do that solo sometimes. I may try the Countryman. I have so many combos and different di's and different pa's that it's hard to get a consistent sound. I can fit so many puzzle pieces together in different combos. It's overwhelming. thanks you two- brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 Originally posted by bmusic Hi folks, I've always craved the 'real' sound of an unplugged acoustic, yet only plugged in. I really don't like the sound of my plugged in acoustics. I usually use a Martin D-19 with a piezo (thinline maybe?) thru a Baggs Para-acoustic DI to the PA. It beefs up the sound but it still sounds thin and dry and tinny. It varies by what PA I'm running thru - sometimes it doesn't sound too bad. I also have an SJ-200 with a Sunrise pickup. Still...tinny and thin. I've tried a Sans Amp DI as well, but that tends to sound more distorted. Lastly, I have a Taylor 714-CE with Fishman preamp and that probably sounds the best. However it can be boxy and I'd like to play a thick-bodied guitar like Martin or Gibson. I usually run EQ pretty flat as I don't know the nuances very well. Any suggestions? How can I get that wood sound/warmth back in? I have my eye on a Hummingbird but scared to plug it in. Blah! thanks! brian Why do you set the EQ flat if it needs some adjusting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashivraj Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 Originally posted by bmusic I usually run EQ pretty flat as I don't know the nuances very well. I'm with TLB on this one. You don't need to know what it does - just experiment till you find a sound you're happy with (and hopefully the soundguy will be happy with it too)... voila! AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 In general I've found that the pickup systems with a built-in mic works the best. The pickup gets the bulk of the volume without feedback, while the mic adds enough "real" sound to fill out the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmusic Posted November 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 yea that's the way the Taylor is; it's a Fishman blender where you can adjust the mic and pickup blend. I wish more big guitars I like - like I said Martin's and Gibsons came with blenders. But I can see where they don't want to cut into the wood. But to me it's necessary for a decent sound. I have an Avalon U5 which I saw was recommended by John Mayer and I know he uses Martins, which probably just come with a piezo. Maybe that's a good combo? So far I just use the U5 in my studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmusic Posted November 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 I've also heard that Takamine's 'are the best sounding live guitars.' Can anyone vouch for that? I'm sure they come with onboard preamps... I don't know much about them- thanks- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 I love my Ovation, it sounds beter than any Takamine's that I have tried for live performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 4, 2006 Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 A little eq goes a long way. One of the biggest ways to suceed with amplifying acoustic guitar is with a really good PA system (exp. good speakers) and an alternative is to use a good acoustic amp which is tailored with acoustic guitar in mine. Also, they will [or at least should] have an input impedance suitable for a passive pickup if one is used. I just did a show with acoustic guitars as lead instruments in the 2 acts, and had no difficulties getting a convincingly natural acoustic sound at what I felt was a pretty high volume 100dB at the mix position 100 feet back. All were different guitars too. Just a little parametric eq on each channel strip and I was a happy camper all night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmusic Posted November 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2006 Originally posted by agedhorse Just a little parametric eq on each channel strip and I was a happy camper all night. cool. Any general rules to follow? (ex. cut mids, boost a certain frequency, etc.) In my experiments it seems like cutting mids takes out some harshness. Also gives more room for my voice (voice is mostly midrange, yes?) thanks- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Have you checked out the Aura Martins? Fishman takes each guitar and tests its frequency response, then they put in 6 (or 7, I can't remember) "classic Mic simulations) which are actually very similar to using the classic mics they are simulating. I was testing one out at GC and switched it to the classic dynamic (sm57) setting, and without looking, I said, wow, that sounds like a 57 on an acoustic, my wife replied, that is the dynamic cardiod setting,... I didn't get a chance to use it with a PA, but I can imagine the results would be equally pleasing. I'm with AgedHorse, Good PA is always the best start, but it might be worth checking out the Martin Aura guitars.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 The eq I will use is different for each guitar and for different PA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmusic Posted November 5, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by bassred Have you checked out the Aura Martins? http://www.maurysmusic.com/martin_aura_guitars really cool, thanks. Expensive, but cool. I'm with AgedHorse, Good PA is always the best start, but it might be worth checking out the Martin Aura guitars.... yea last night I was sitting right in front of average quality 12" speakers and the horns were blaring at me. But I heard from the audience that it wasn't as harsh as it was for me up close. I think I'll stick with the Taylor for now and maybe get up to an Aura someday. brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pktaskes Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by agedhorse The eq I will use is different for each guitar and for different PA's. A truer statement there is not!! I'm a nut for good acoustic sound and there are NO short cuts (aside from a good condenser mic on a stand but thats not very practical for many rock bands). I use the sansamp which has a very sensitive mid control along with a blend control that gets a bit of the quack out but can get too dark if overused. Bottom line is I spend full 5-10 minutes each gig just working on tweaking it based on room, PA, etc. Yes, a good general rule is cut some mids out but there are times when I have to punch it up a bit. I have heard so many bad sounding amplified acoustic guitars its not funny. And it doesn't have to be a great pickup either. My Martin had one of those bare bone Fishmans in it and I was able to (eventually) dial in a good sound. Takes time and yes - use your ears. And a feedback killer for your sound hole. PS - piezo equipped electric are underrated. I'd put my Godin LGX against most Taylors, Taks and Ovations through a PA. The downside is that you really cant get a good, hard, chunky stroke going on those as you would a heavier stringed acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by bmusic cool. Any general rules to follow? (ex. cut mids, boost a certain frequency, etc.)In my experiments it seems like cutting mids takes out some harshness. Also gives more room for my voice (voice is mostly midrange, yes?)thanks- The only rules are to use your ears and adjust accordingly. It really isn't very hard. Just takes a little time. I assume your board has at least one band with sweepable mids? Most do. Just use that to dial in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbbbbrian Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 You could try a sound board pickup such as a K&K western or B-band ast. I prefer both these to any UST,but...the Aura would probably be you best option for you ,as sound board pickups are more prone to feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaBender Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 I got together with my old harp player yesterday, and we played as a duet for fun. I used my Takamine into an old Silvertone 1482 tube amp. I know it's not what you're looking for, but it was so warm, we all thought it sounded fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted November 6, 2006 Members Share Posted November 6, 2006 Originally posted by bmusic I have an Avalon U5 The U5 in tone mode 4 would give you a very warm sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmusic Posted November 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 6, 2006 hmmm tempting to bring it out... thanks everyone- b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sherwood Posted November 6, 2006 Members Share Posted November 6, 2006 Bmusic, Here's my rig. Expensive but awesome live acoustic sound. Martin J40 with Martin gold line pickup ( probably same as the thinline ) into a D-tar Mama bear then into the Bose PAS system with a Bose B1 subwoofer. Figure $ 2 K for the Bose system and $ 350 for the Mama bear. If it's within your budget you will be a happy man. Sherwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted November 7, 2006 Members Share Posted November 7, 2006 I got awesome results with a tube preamp, a good compressor, and some haas processing. The Tubeworks Blue Tube (rack version not the pedal) is designed for bass but sounds great on acoustic/electric guitar. Compressor of choice was JBL/UREI 7110, it really leveled out the guitar beautifully (cheap comps like 3630s need not apply). Any digital delay for simple haas processing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmusic Posted November 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 7, 2006 'hass' processing?? thanks- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted November 7, 2006 Members Share Posted November 7, 2006 Haas processing with digital delay (requires stereo PA) Direct signal panned hard left, 20-30ms delayed signal panned hard right. The ear cannot perceive delays that short but they do perceive the stereo image generated by haas processing. Little known but widely used trick of mastering engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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