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  • Low End Feedback/Rumbling On Stage and FOH

    My band played a new venue (for us) last night. There was a house PA (don't know much about it so don't ask). The speakers were hanging from the rafters and there were a lot of them. There were between 500 and 1000 people in the room we were playing.

    During the first set, we started getting this insane low end rumbling that was on the stage and was feeding through the FOH. The soundguy ask me (the bassist) to turn down. I did so. The rumbling was still there. There were even times when I wasn't playing at all and the rumbling still occured.

    Towards the end of the first set, he got it under control and I was allowed to turn back up. I played the last third of our first set without hearing myself. The second set was fine.

    Afterwards, I talked with him about it. His thought was that my 15" bass cabinet (I was playing a 210/115 stack) was coupled to the stage (which has a thin top, is about 3 feet or so high, and is hollow underneath was transmitting soundwaves that were feedbacking into the guitarists' mic'd cab and the kick mic.

    I asked what I could do to prevent this in the future. He suggesed casters on the 115 cab. I don't want to do that. He also suggested getting it off the floor.

    What's the best way to do this? I've read that the Auralex Grammas are good for this. I've also heard of people using milk crates.

    I'm here looking for answers.

    Thanks!
    <div class="signaturecontainer"><b><font color="Black"><font size="1"><a href="http://www.yardfullacars.com/" target="_blank">I used to play with</a> | <a href="http://www.katiequick.com/" target="_blank">I occasionally play with</a></font></font></b><br ><br><br ><br><font size="1"><br ><br><u>My Main Gigging Gear:</u><br ><br>Musicman Dargie Delight 5HS Bongo with rounds<br ><br>G&amp;L L-2500 Tribute with flats<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 6.0 112 combo<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 9.0 &amp; GenzBenz Neo 212T<br ><br>Peterson Strobostomp<br ><br>Sennheiser EW172 Wireless</font></div>

  • #2
    Originally posted by Thunderbroom
    My band played a new venue (for us) last night. There was a house PA (don't know much about it so don't ask). The speakers were hanging from the rafters and there were a lot of them. There were between 500 and 1000 people in the room we were playing.

    During the first set, we started getting this insane low end rumbling that was on the stage and was feeding through the FOH. The soundguy ask me (the bassist) to turn down. I did so. The rumbling was still there. There were even times when I wasn't playing at all and the rumbling still occured.

    Towards the end of the first set, he got it under control and I was allowed to turn back up. I played the last third of our first set without hearing myself. The second set was fine.

    Afterwards, I talked with him about it. His thought was that my 15" bass cabinet (I was playing a 210/115 stack) was coupled to the stage (which has a thin top, is about 3 feet or so high, and is hollow underneath was transmitting soundwaves that were feedbacking into the guitarists' mic'd cab and the kick mic.

    I asked what I could do to prevent this in the future. He suggesed casters on the 115 cab. I don't want to do that. He also suggested getting it off the floor.

    What's the best way to do this? I've read that the Auralex Grammas are good for this. I've also heard of people using milk crates.

    I'm here looking for answers.

    Thanks!
    My answer would be anything that gets it off the floor. Sounds like you could have used a better sound person though.
    <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="mailto:tlbonehead@yahoo.com">tlbonehead@yaho o.com</a><br />
    <a href="http://www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy</a><br />
    -For Sale: <br />
    -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US<br />
    -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.<br />
    - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping<br />
    - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds &amp; looks good. $250 + shipping. <b>SOLD</b><br />
    - Crate Palomino V8 - 10&quot; Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)</div>

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by tlbonehead
      My answer would be anything that gets it off the floor. Sounds like you could have used a better sound person though.


      So, anything will work...a couple of milk crates...the Gramma...a piece of plywood nailed to some 2x4's...a stool?
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><b><font color="Black"><font size="1"><a href="http://www.yardfullacars.com/" target="_blank">I used to play with</a> | <a href="http://www.katiequick.com/" target="_blank">I occasionally play with</a></font></font></b><br ><br><br ><br><font size="1"><br ><br><u>My Main Gigging Gear:</u><br ><br>Musicman Dargie Delight 5HS Bongo with rounds<br ><br>G&amp;L L-2500 Tribute with flats<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 6.0 112 combo<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 9.0 &amp; GenzBenz Neo 212T<br ><br>Peterson Strobostomp<br ><br>Sennheiser EW172 Wireless</font></div>

      Comment


      • #4
        By any chance were they using a D112 kik mic? This is one challange with that mic live.

        If there's that much low end rumble, I wonder where the subs were located? How much excess low end gain was being used? Were high pass filters being used on channels other than thgose that required the low end to begin with?

        These are questions that always come to mind when presented with this scenario. Generally, the fix is pretty simple.

        IF it was the bass cabinets coupling with t he guitar mic then the HPF needs to be used on the gtr channel and better MIC isolation from the stage may be another approach to consider.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by agedhorse
          By any chance were they using a D112 kik mic? This is one challange with that mic live.

          If there's that much low end rumble, I wonder where the subs were located? How much excess low end gain was being used? Were high pass filters being used on channels other than thgose that required the low end to begin with?

          These are questions that always come to mind when presented with this scenario. Generally, the fix is pretty simple.

          IF it was the bass cabinets coupling with t he guitar mic then the HPF needs to be used on the gtr channel and better MIC isolation from the stage may be another approach to consider.
          Yep. Should have the low cuts on all chanels that don't need the bottom octave. (guitar mics, vocal mics, all drum mics except kick and maybe the bigger toms,etc) Sounds like the tech didn't do much, if any searching to find out where the problem was actually coming from. Punching out channels one by one, cutting and sweeping the mid control on the offending channel(s) to find and eliminate the offending frequencies(if the sweep area goes low enough) Even cutting the mains and seeing if there is a problem at the source, especially if he thought it was the coupling of the bass cab to a hollow floor) All areas and ideas that should have been checked out.
          <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="mailto:tlbonehead@yahoo.com">tlbonehead@yaho o.com</a><br />
          <a href="http://www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy</a><br />
          -For Sale: <br />
          -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US<br />
          -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.<br />
          - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping<br />
          - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds &amp; looks good. $250 + shipping. <b>SOLD</b><br />
          - Crate Palomino V8 - 10&quot; Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)</div>

          Comment


          • #6
            I can't vouch for his technical prowess or lack thereof. I know very little about live sound myself.

            About the coupling, will anything do as far as raising the cab off the floor? Is the Auralex Gramma a solid product or a gimmick?
            <div class="signaturecontainer"><b><font color="Black"><font size="1"><a href="http://www.yardfullacars.com/" target="_blank">I used to play with</a> | <a href="http://www.katiequick.com/" target="_blank">I occasionally play with</a></font></font></b><br ><br><br ><br><font size="1"><br ><br><u>My Main Gigging Gear:</u><br ><br>Musicman Dargie Delight 5HS Bongo with rounds<br ><br>G&amp;L L-2500 Tribute with flats<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 6.0 112 combo<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 9.0 &amp; GenzBenz Neo 212T<br ><br>Peterson Strobostomp<br ><br>Sennheiser EW172 Wireless</font></div>

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Thunderbroom
              I can't vouch for his technical prowess or lack thereof. I know very little about live sound myself.

              About the coupling, will anything do as far as raising the cab off the floor? Is the Auralex Gramma a solid product or a gimmick?
              No idea what it is. But anything will work.
              <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="mailto:tlbonehead@yahoo.com">tlbonehead@yaho o.com</a><br />
              <a href="http://www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy</a><br />
              -For Sale: <br />
              -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US<br />
              -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.<br />
              - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping<br />
              - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds &amp; looks good. $250 + shipping. <b>SOLD</b><br />
              - Crate Palomino V8 - 10&quot; Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)</div>

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tlbonehead
                No idea what it is. But anything will work.


                Link
                <div class="signaturecontainer"><b><font color="Black"><font size="1"><a href="http://www.yardfullacars.com/" target="_blank">I used to play with</a> | <a href="http://www.katiequick.com/" target="_blank">I occasionally play with</a></font></font></b><br ><br><br ><br><font size="1"><br ><br><u>My Main Gigging Gear:</u><br ><br>Musicman Dargie Delight 5HS Bongo with rounds<br ><br>G&amp;L L-2500 Tribute with flats<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 6.0 112 combo<br ><br>GenzBenz Shuttle 9.0 &amp; GenzBenz Neo 212T<br ><br>Peterson Strobostomp<br ><br>Sennheiser EW172 Wireless</font></div>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Thunderbroom
                  Link
                  I'm sure it works but that's a lot of money to spend for a solution that can cost nothing otherwise. And remember, you still don't know for sure if your cab was causing the problem.
                  <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="mailto:tlbonehead@yahoo.com">tlbonehead@yaho o.com</a><br />
                  <a href="http://www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy</a><br />
                  -For Sale: <br />
                  -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US<br />
                  -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.<br />
                  - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping<br />
                  - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds &amp; looks good. $250 + shipping. <b>SOLD</b><br />
                  - Crate Palomino V8 - 10&quot; Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)</div>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll bet the kick was heavily compressed and the result being a loud channel when nothing is happening. This would be on the soundperson to fix. When I hear this type this it's the first place I look...
                    p
                    <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="http://www.rock-bot.com" target="_blank">www.rock-bot.com</a><br />
                    Live-Band-Karaoke<br />
                    <br />
                    bassist and sound reinforcement</div>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      someone suggested tennis balls cut in half under the cab.
                      <div class="signaturecontainer">beer</div>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by strategy400
                        someone suggested tennis balls cut in half under the cab.


                        Depending on the weight of the cabinet (an Ampeg SVT Cab might just crush them), that sounds like a great Idea (and priced right as well). I personaly couldn't see spending big money for some gucci product to do such a simple job (unless it was an extreme case).
                        J.R. Previously jrble

                        See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

                        Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
                        If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thunderbroom
                          There were even times when I wasn't playing at all and the rumbling still occured.


                          It had NOTHING to do with you then, and everything to do with an incompetent engineer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Unalaska
                            I'll bet the kick was heavily compressed and the result being a loud channel when nothing is happening. This would be on the soundperson to fix. When I hear this type this it's the first place I look...
                            p


                            Also a good candidate for this problem, ESPECIALLY with a D112

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dude needs a gate on the kick. If anything it'll make the kick mic feedback, not the guitar mic.

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