Members tvogel Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I can't seem to get much low end out my bass drum. I am the drummer and the sound guy(more crap to set up) It has a lot of hi end click despite the fact that I have the eq on the board and a 31ch eq with almost all the highs cut out. I have a comp/gate and a decent mic. Can anyone suggest the order of the gear and settings for a particular sound out of the bass drum,low end thump. Recorded music sounds great. Please help very frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 What mic??? Do you have subs?? You won't get an authentic rock kick without subs. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 What mic??? Do you have subs?? You won't get an authentic rock kick without subs.Les WOW. I swear I was going to post the exact same thing... Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tvogel Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Les and Al. Thanks. I have a AKG D112. Yes. Single 18" on each side. I put the mic on a mini boom stand in the drum aiming at where the beater strikes the head. Would it be better to put it just inside the hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I don't have much experience with the D112, don't particularly like it so I don't use it. Others have used it with some success, maybe they'll chime in. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tvogel Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 What kind do you use? How do you place it inside the drum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Audix D6. Usually placed completely inside the drum head at a 45 degree angle. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 It's good to experiment a little with placement. Good to do the same with EQ as well. It's not necessarily a good idea to eliminate all high frequencies since some of them do contribute to the actual sound of the kick. I may be full of {censored} however because I only do smaller live sound setups occasionally.... We usually just throw an SM58 in there and EQ to taste. Surprisingly, it works well and does add some thump to the overall sound! Al - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tvogel Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Do anything with a compresser limiter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tvogel Posted February 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 If someone can explain what a compressore/limiter does and is supposed to do I should be able to figure it out. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members death metal jim Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 i would bypass all comps /gates and eqs,then set the channel eq flat.and see what it sounds like.then mess with the channel eq. also how old are your heads and do you have a pillow in it. as for me i use triggers.but a lot of bands i run sound for love klick with low end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 i would bypass all comps /gates and eqs,then set the channel eq flat.and see what it sounds like.then mess with the channel eq. also how old are your heads and do you have a pillow in it. as for me i use triggers.but a lot of bands i run sound for love klick with low end. +1 I don't see any reason to run a gate on kick drum live anyhow. A compressor should be used sparingly IMO and only to keep large transients down. I like live music to sound live and my cd's to sound like cd's. IMO the kick drum is the instrument that benefits most from an aux-fed sub approach. Just get the top sounding like you want it and dial in the bottom. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark T Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I use a D112 on my drummers kick. Normally run the channel EQ pretty much flat (depends on the room). I will usually move the mic around to get the sound I'm looking for. Less click, point it further away from the beater or pull the mic further away from the front head. Are you sure the mic is working properly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 D112 can be difficult to get a good kick sound live... it's not terribly user friendly IMO. Gates and comps (w/ side chain filter) can be a good tool in the right hands BUT can totally screw the pooch if you don't know what you are doing. You are best off getting the best sound possible w/out comps & gates, perhaps a mic like the Audio Technica ATM-25 would be easier, and then when you have the time and motivation to learn, try gating first, then comp a little. Put gate first then comp. Read about this technique before just trying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Usualy the D112 is if anything a bottom endy mic. Between that and 2 18"s you should get tons of bottom end. Just a wierd question but.... Are the two Subs in phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 i would bypass all comps /gates and eqs,then set the channel eq flat.and see what it sounds like.then mess with the channel eq. also how old are your heads and do you have a pillow in it. as for me i use triggers.but a lot of bands i run sound for love klick with low end. Funny you mentioned pillow in the kick I just saw Graig Bissonette (Fusion drummer) talk about not using pillows in the kick because you wouldn't put pillows on your toms which are tiny kick drums. These were his words not mine but I can see his point but he did use a small rolled up towel in his kick. Then sub mixed his drums through a Yamaha digital mixer for FOH. He claims the reason for sub mixing was better control of eq for each drum I know the Yamaha has built in gate comps and parametric and graphic eqs but then again Graig's stressed mainly about drum heads and tuning was the most important. And always he was amazing drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I use a D112 with no problems. if you can't get it to go BOOM, you've got an issue somewher, that mic wants to boom. try putting it on a boom stand, just inside the resonant head, facing the beater head, works every time for me... seems to be a mic that requires a little TLC (although I've never had any problems with it.) maybe try a Beta 52, lots of folks like them too! and the AT-25 is good as well........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timmcallister Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 we usually play smaller rooms and I just want the sub to fill out the bottom end, we're not after a lot of volume, and rarely mic any of the drums other than the kick. I use a 57 dropped right on the pillow inside the kick. as most of the "tone" is coming off the stage, this works fine for us to round out the bottom. but we're not doing rock, we're doing old jump blues. whatever rocks your boat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members death metal jim Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Funny you mentioned pillow in the kick I just saw Graig Bissonette (Fusion drummer) talk about not using pillows in the kick because you wouldn't put pillows on your toms which are tiny kick drums. These were his words not mine but I can see his point but he did use a small rolled up towel in his kick. Then sub mixed his drums through a Yamaha digital mixer for FOH. He claims the reason for sub mixing was better control of eq for each drum I know the Yamaha has built in gate comps and parametric and graphic eqs but then again Graig's stressed mainly about drum heads and tuning was the most important. And always he was amazing drummer. i dont use pillows .i use a small bath mat in each kick(shhhhhhh dont tell my wife) i wouldnt even use that but i am having trouble getting my kicks to sound the same. ya bissonette is good one of my favorite cds is david lee roths eat em and smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jess Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Don't put anything in your kik. Experiment with your tuning first up, try with a tight batter and loose reso then reverse and have the batter loose and reso tight. Every kik is different and it don't matter what mic you use if the kik sounds like {censored}???....well ya can polish a turd forever but it will still be a turd(not saying that your kik sounds like {censored}). I would like to suggest the Evans Emad batter head to you if you have not tried it already, i have one on my kik and it is by far the best sounding skin i have ever used( and believe me iv'e tried them all). The emad comes with 2 dampening rings that sit on the beater skin side and are sooooo easy to put on or take off....Here's a link to the emad....... http://www.adcdrums.co.uk/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=141&strPageHistory=cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Damping a kick with a pillow or other material may be a good solution depending on the kick itself and the style of sound you are after. Just like gates, comps, mics and mic technique... all different approaches at getting an acceptable sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majoria Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I know the issue you have tvogel, I'm the drummer and sound guy as well. Couple of questions I have: What brand/model of kick drum? What size? What kind of heads are you using on it? How does the kick sound by itself? I've tried to make a peashooter into a cannon with just sound equipment and it never works, live or studio. You can only capture the original sound, not make a new one. Unless you trigger..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 not sure if I am the first one to ask , .. but what is the drum like accoustically? if the drum sounds like ass, with a mic it is just bigger ass. I don't use compressor/limiters on my kick drum, I did at one point, but now I am likeing the sound of only a gate. Ps - I use the d112, some people hate it , I don't though I think some others are better. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I'd just take the mic and some damping stuff and try a bunch of things out. Sometimes a pillow will make a huge improvement, even if it isn't making a lot of contact with the head. Generally I like to have the mic either just in or around the hole. But sometimes it's worked better on a particular kick to have it somewhat inside the drum, or even laying on the pillow in the bottom. Hard to predict, it varies quite a lot with the drum, the drummer, the head(s), the beater material, etc. I've seen kick drums with a flexible pad stuck to the beater head where it gets hit, to spread out the hit for more thump instead of click. You might discover that the best amplified sound does not come from the ideal acoustic sound - drums are weird that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Assuming the system is properly tuned and of good quality, if you are eqing that much, you need to address the source(the kick drum) and get it to sound acoustically correct, then amplify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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