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Vocal Mic?


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Beta 87 is a nice mic but way more money than SM58. When I am spending other peoples money I buy Beta 87 alot. When I spend my money I buy SM-58. I look at upgrading sound systems as finding the weakest link. Find what is making you sound less than perfect. The SM-58 is not the first place I look.

 

And just in case I was unclear:

I LOVE BETA 87's

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B58 is probably as good of a choice as any, I am not a fan of any of the 87's for rock vocals though (I would choose an SM-58 over an 87 here) but if you are not happy with the SM-58, perhaps money would be better spent finding out and correcting another deficiency you might have that's making the SM-58 less desireable for you? Maybe it's a monitor problem, or an operational problem (specifically monitor eq opertation?)

 

What specifically do you NOT like about the SM-58?

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i specifically do not like the fact that sm58's seem to roll around in the 400-800hz range quite a bit. this can be butchered out with eq to some extent.

 

they tend to sound nasaly to me and lack definition.

 

i also am highly suspect about the claim that they are a cardioid patterned mic. i beleive this affects the 400-800hz mucky-muck.

 

the beta58a is a slight improvement, in at least it has a tighter pattern imho.

 

i really do not like sm86 or beta87 series.

 

all this said, i bought a beta57a. it's nice. guess i'm going straight to hell, i constantly rag on shure mics and i own 5 of them.

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this is not one system, at least 7 i have access to. also notice it on television broadcasts, other folks rig's, especially tenacious D live performances. i knew they were using 58's long before they showed the mic anywhere near up close.

 

dont like 'em, dont like 'em, dont like 'em.

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Ok, maybe you have a hearing issue? Have you had your hearing checked recently? (Note to everyone... this is always a good idea to be sure you have a baseline to judge hearing changes from).

 

I don't hear in a 58 what you describe, and I did have my hearing tested at NAMM in January so I know it's good (excellent actually), so if it's something that obvious to you, I would take a step back and see why you don't like it so much. Maybe it's just that you are more sensitive in that range and it's not your personal cup of tea, but if you are more sensitive and tend to cut that out (or choose a mic with a dip there) then you may not be hearing what the representative audience is hearing. This is why it's important to get your ears checked. (Aside from other possible serious health/damage issues of course)

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calling out my hearing is a bit extreme.

 

anyways,

 

i beleive it has to do with the pattern of the mic and over-loud wedges. there is a certain feedback in the 400-800 range that sounds like a "58 howl", even when dipped in that area. as a result, i hear this ring amplified in the pa. it tends to not happen at all if an artist uses in-ears.

 

also, this does not happen with a "for certain" cardioid mic and an over-loud wedge, but it will happen with a pg48.

 

now when i say 'over-loud' wedge, i mean if i am anywhere near that thing i cant stand it. i dont know how these people can stand in front of those, and this is most folks i deal with.

 

even shure doesnt seem to call the sm58 a cardioid mic, they seem to call it 'unidirectional'. everytime i take apart a 'unidirectional' mic i find a otherwise omni looking setup - no labrynth - no slots.

 

now i cannot conclusively state that an sm58 is not a cardioid mic, but based on my observations it is not.

 

i tend to not favor shure mics except in rare occasion, which is why i only own 5.

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I'm not being extreme here, so don't take it as such. I am commenting that what you are experiencing is different than my experiences and that checking your hearing is always a good idea if you haven't done it recently. Just to be sure you aren't chasing the wrong problem. Maybe it's the combination of your system(s?) and your ears? If you are happy with your solution then that's good.

 

As far as the 58 being cardiod, that refers to the directionality (polar) pattern that the mic exhibits, which is most certainly cardiod. If you look closely, there are equalizing passages located behind the screen that holds the capsule into the housing, right at the base of the windscreen.

 

Don't take my comments personally, that's not how they are intended. EVERYONE should get their hearing tested... actually a physical probably isn't such a bad idea either [checks schedule for opening].

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i'll take your word on those slots, i've never seen them but i havent looked incredibly hard. i can easily see them on many other mics though. on the 58's i just find a large black tube in a suspension inside the ball.

 

if i have one good thing to say about the sm58, they do have a rather low handling noise.

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Hmmm... I'd have to say, I don't share your experiences with the SM-58. OK, it's not the Ultimate Mic, but it's really quite good on just about anybody. And on some people it sounds just exactly right.

 

In general I'm not a fan of the Beta58 because it's got a more exaggerated top and also more proximity effect, both of which tend to cause problems for me.

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consider me too picky.

 

I think the whole thing comes down to this:

 

You think it sounds bad while a majority of people think it sounds good. Whenever you are in that situation you have to ask "why?". Then ask "what does it matter?". If personal enjoyment is the issue then to each his own. If providing sound to an audience is the issue you have to ask not "what you want?" but "what do they want?".

 

I run into this problem when mixing bluegrass bands. If I mix them how I like it people complain. If I mix them like everyone else does people like the show.:rolleyes:

 

Who is right? (the one paying the bills)

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that is a very valid point. some occasions i find i am in a position to mix to another's taste instead of my own.

 

when a performer requests a 58 on a rider, i always make sure i have some available although i do not own any myself. 7 times out of ten when i suggest they might try a different mic they often are suprised to find it may work better than what they are used to.

 

i'll never forget the day a lady showed up with a beta57 and laid-it-down-i'm-a-gonna-sing-though-this-mic-dammit and i was shocked when she was right - there was not a damn thing i could have done better than that mic on her. it was perfect.

 

i went and bought one myself.

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B57A works well on a few select voices, mostly ime women.

 

e835 senn i like except it seems to not handle plosives very well. get a singer that can handle plosives and this is a good mic. also has a peak that can be an issue with some voices, others not.

 

B58A works suprisingly well in a loud-wedge environment on almost any style/gender voice. some voices dont seem to work well with the extreme exagerated peak, specifically the 4k-6k area. a 266xl or 166xl style comp set conservatively really helps this mic out.

 

EV357, EV757 not the best mics but have their place on the right voice. no apparent peak compared to shure, very warm, intimate sound. doesnt handle eating the mic very well. plosives can be an issue.

 

OM5 in the right situation. ive heard one sound great. thats it - one.

 

of course the handheld neumann. got $$$? i dont.

 

theres more, BUT

 

did anyone see saturday night live last night? i'm not a country fan but the band sounded really, really good especially the vocals. i couldnt quite make out what mic they were using, looked like it possibly maybe sorta could have been an 86. anyone know?

 

i want one of those whatever it was.

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The SNL vocal sound could have very easily been the skill of the engineer you were hearing as well.

 

The Neuman that you mention has it's place, but easily gets uncontrollable on a loud stage, and under high gain situations. It's great for acoustic and jazz vocals though, where things are more reasonable all around.

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From the peanut gallery here, I think that the mic isn't always the biggest variable to the sound quality. I've taken a Samson S11 and had people come up to me afterwards wanting to know what that phenomenal vocal mic was. If I can do that with a $50 mic, imagine what a true sound engineer can do with a better mic. My view is that the collective of the sound equipment and sound engineer are the ultimate trump cards.

 

But if you want to pin it down to a mic as the variable, go with an Audix.

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yes the talent of both the artist and engineers involved was quite good. i was pretty impressed they got a mix like that on television, at least on SNL. SNL seems hit and miss when it comes to guest bands - sometimes its really good and other times.....

 

nobody ever says anything about the good times. i'm saying this was good. so if the guy from the show that mixed that band reads this, nice job man.

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The Neuman that you mention has it's place, but easily gets uncontrollable on a loud stage, and under high gain situations. It's great for acoustic and jazz vocals though, where things are more reasonable all around.

 

 

I must agree. The Neuman handhelds Probably the KMS 104105s aren't usualy the hot setup for High Volume R&R (they have a bug bump around 8-10k which makes for not too good GBF (the 87 does this as well but it is not as pronounced)). If you like that nice bright clear top end at higher volumes then my vote would go for the B57a (I think they sound almost like a condenser but with much better and uniform rejection (Great GBF)).

 

For what it's worth. I'm in love with the KMS 104 for lower volume Jazz Vocs (the 105 being hypercardioid tends to have a bit too much proximity effect). I guess it's all about application.

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