Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 I'm looking into purchasing some monitors for my 4-piece band. Mainly, so we can hear our vocals. I was considering the smaller monitors that attach to your mic stand. I figure doing it this way would cut down on feedback because you wouldn't have to crank them as much, and you'd be able to hear them better because you are closer to them. I'm looking at these: TC Helicon VoiceSolo300http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VoiceSolo300/ Galaxy Hot Spothttp://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HotSpotPA/ Anyone have experience with these types of monitors? It's either these, or I get some powered floor wedges, like the 10" JBL EONs. (BTW, whatever I decide to get, I prefer for them to be powered speakers, as I prefer their ease of use). Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 I don't know those particular speakers, but my experience with hot spot style monitors is that they're okay if you're an acoustic guy in a coffee shop, but they're a little light in the loafers for rock band use. 5 and 6" speakers can only do so much. Most people manage to use floor monitors successfully without feedback, so I wouldn't make that your main motivation for buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 I think the main motivation is the ability to control your own mix right on the speaker itself. Theoretically, I'd connect my mic into the monitor, then out from the monitor into the mixer. Then I'd take an aux send from the board and put it into the other input on the monitor. This way, I'd get everything I'd want in the monitor, but could specifically control the volume of my voice. Obviously, this creates more setup, but maybe it's worth it. What you've said about the Hot Spots is what I've heard too. I guess I'm more interested in the TC Helicons....they seem like they'd be more suited for more than just a solo acoustic monitor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 The TC is $400. For $600 you can get a complete Shure PSM200 IEM system and have similar "more me" flexibility (albeit 2 channels not three, but if you've got a guitar amp the instrument input is redundant) with the added benefit of less stage volume and you aren't tied to the tiny 'hot spot' near the mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 I've thoroughly researched the possibility of IEMs. However, for my band, and the fact that we run our own sound, it wouldn't be very practical for us. If we had another person to solely help us on sound, then it would be something to consider, although it would still be on the expensive side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 Does anyone out there have any experience with the TC Helicon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 I think the main motivation is the ability to control your own mix right on the speaker itself. Theoretically, I'd connect my mic into the monitor, then out from the monitor into the mixer. Then I'd take an aux send from the board and put it into the other input on the monitor. This way, I'd get everything I'd want in the monitor, but could specifically control the volume of my voice. Obviously, this creates more setup, but maybe it's worth it. That is exactly how I have used them and they work well at low volume. I have no use for them at R&R volume. The TC website has a list of people who use the product you listed. They are all "jazz club" style gigs. Low volume stuff. I have not used them but they look like they will perform exactly like the Hot Spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 I've thoroughly researched the possibility of IEMs. However, for my band, and the fact that we run our own sound, it wouldn't be very practical for us. If we had another person to solely help us on sound, then it would be something to consider, although it would still be on the expensive side. You know you can run IEMs the same way you described for the Hot Spots. You can run just your mic to one input and a mix to the other then control the "blend" with the belt pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 I've thoroughly researched the possibility of IEMs. However, for my band, and the fact that we run our own sound, it wouldn't be very practical for us. If we had another person to solely help us on sound, then it would be something to consider, although it would still be on the expensive side. As prosigna wrote, there's nothing different using IEM's from a mixing standpoint. What was your concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 Well, most of the time we're not micing our guitar amps (we have two of them). So if I were to use IEMs, I'd have to mic them so I could hear my guitars. Plus, communicating with the other band members on stage can be a hassel if we're all using the in-ears. I've read about people attaching ambient mics to their beltpack to use with their IEMs, but this combined with micing the amps is a lot of extra setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yinger Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 Does anyone out there have any experience with the TC Helicon? I was quiet intrigued by this product as well. Heard both great and bad things about it. I guess it's great if you do solo/acoustic quieter music. Just the fact that you get to hear everything right in front of you and clearing up the stage is such a big plus for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 My band uses powered DJ speakers made by Gemini the GX-250 which looks just like an EV resincab. They are hellishly loud if thats what you want. We have 4 aux outs from the board, so we can each have our own mix. As a drummer, I had my doubts (I used to monitor with a Peavey KB-300), but this little 10" powered cab works fine, and has much more power than the Galaxy. Read about them here and price it on Amazon with free shipping here. Best of Luck...My .02 on IEM: Too much isolation from the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 TuMadre: Wow...they're very inexpensive as compared to the JBL 10" EONs. I'm sure they don't sound as good as the EONs, but if you say they're decent enough for monitors, I'll definitely consider them. Has anyone else used them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 Personally I would go with IEM but since the drummer said he tried them before and hated them we just use Yamaha wedges guess it's one of those either love'em or hate'em products. I dunno I never had the chance to use any yet but would be nice to carry my monitors in a gig bag instead of lugging around 4 boxes around. But the again I don't mind paying youngsters lugging the stuff around for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 If you look on the Amazon page, there are a few reviews from users of these cabs (one is me though). Seriously, they are not bad at all. I've used them as mains at a couple of coffe shop gigs and they sounded fine once EQ'd properly (yes, they even have basic eq!). You're not gonna rock the house with these, but you would not want to be on stage with 4 of them going near full power without hearing protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 Well that sounds good to me... and you really can't beat the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 Well, most of the time we're not micing our guitar amps (we have two of them). So if I were to use IEMs, I'd have to mic them so I could hear my guitars. Plus, communicating with the other band members on stage can be a hassel if we're all using the in-ears. I've read about people attaching ambient mics to their beltpack to use with their IEMs, but this combined with micing the amps is a lot of extra setup. Plugging in two mics on the amps, and everyone clips a lav to their shirt....that's a lot of extra setup? No floor wedges under foot, no feedback hassles, cleaner FOH mix thanks to lower stage volume. About 10lb of gear to haul vs a couple hundred. Yeah, it's a real hardship; I wonder how virtually every pro act manages to put up with it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 It's not only the extra setup...as TuMadre said: "too much isolation from the gig" The pro acts have their dedicated sound guys waiting on them for all their monitoring needs, and they don't have to worry about their FOH sound...their sound guys are on that too. For my band, at the gigs were we do our own sound (about a third of our total gigs), I'm the one setting up the PA, running the sound checks, and running the board throughout the duration of the show. I am constantly paying attention to the PA and making sure everything is mixed with the instruments and amps on the stage. To top it off, I am also the lead singer and lead guitarist. To take care of my band's sound needs, I need to hear my surroundings with my ears, not with a little mic attached to my shirt. I mean, hey...I agree, I'd love to use IEMs, it would be awesome. But with me taking care of every aspect of the sound and the show, you can see that it would not be very practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 16, 2007 Members Share Posted February 16, 2007 Gemini is another bottle of the barrel brand as same with Nady,Kustom,Behringer and American DJ I wouldn't waste my money buy real floor wedges and be done with it I'm in the same boat except I play bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 It's not only the extra setup...as TuMadre said: "too much isolation from the gig"The pro acts have their dedicated sound guys waiting on them for all their monitoring needs, and they don't have to worry about their FOH sound...their sound guys are on that too. For my band, at the gigs were we do our own sound (about a third of our total gigs), I'm the one setting up the PA, running the sound checks, and running the board throughout the duration of the show. I am constantly paying attention to the PA and making sure everything is mixed with the instruments and amps on the stage. To top it off, I am also the lead singer and lead guitarist. To take care of my band's sound needs, I need to hear my surroundings with my ears, not with a little mic attached to my shirt. I mean, hey...I agree, I'd love to use IEMs, it would be awesome. But with me taking care of every aspect of the sound and the show, you can see that it would not be very practical. Have you gigged with IEM's? You're totally "in" the gig. You can hear everything. I run PA for my bands, and trust me when I say that an IEM gig is so much easier. No lost time ringing out wedges. No feedback. You hand out the receivers, each player is responsible for their earbuds, power up, adjust the mix level and you're off and running. You have control over your ear volume, so no frantic gesturing to the sound guy who's making time with the girls, or in your case, no frantic gestures to you from the other guys while you're trying to play. And FWIW I don't use ambients and I don't always mic the guitar. I get more than enough bleed using the foamy or silicone bud inserts to hear the stage. Communication has never been a problem, but there really should be a minimum of private chit-chat during the show anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted February 17, 2007 Members Share Posted February 17, 2007 Gemini is another bottle of the barrel brand as same with Nady,Kustom,Behringer and American DJ I wouldn't waste my money buy real floor wedges and be done with it. By that line of thinking, my bottom of the quality barrel Phonic board I've had for 15 years should have long since died an unpleasant, smoky death. Granted, the failure rate of equipment manufactured by Nady, Behringer and their ilk is atrocious. Do your homework like I did, and you will find that Gemini is apparently not of the same cloth as these companies. Regardless, it makes no fiscal sense to pay $550 for a speaker (Eon) that is replaceable with a reasonable substitute costing $165. For this to make sense, you would have to assume a 75% failure rate of the less expensive cabinet. What are the chances of 3 of your 4 cabinets failing? Even if 1 of 4 does fail outside of the warranty period, the extra money spent for for JBL's makes no sense if there is a reasonable expectation that the 3 of the 4 Gemini's will last as long as 4 of 4 Eon's. I understand equipment snobbery, but in my 48 years as a working musician, I have learned to weigh out probabilities on lesser namebrands, except for those brands such as Nady and Behringer where even the smallest amount of internet reading will tell you that these are outside the scope of any reasonable statistical analysis. Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted February 17, 2007 Members Share Posted February 17, 2007 Not all equipment by all ''value'' brands are junk. Some American DJ and Gemini products are quite decent (for the price) while some are less decent. It's not always as simple as looking at how long the equipment will last however. If you take your speaker comparison, you are not only paying extra for equipment life. You are paying for better sound quality, more efficient higher quality drivers, better engineering etc... The Gemini cabs may last as long as more expensive EV cabs but very often you would need 2 to 3 of those Gemini speakers to match the output capability of one more efficient and better sounding EV speaker. It's not about gear snobbery. There's many reasons one product may be more expensive than another. It's usually because better quality parts were used, more engineering, designing and testing were involved and often a good warranty will accompany the more expensive product. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 17, 2007 Members Share Posted February 17, 2007 By that line of thinking, my bottom of the quality barrel Phonic board I've had for 15 years should have long since died an unpleasant, smoky death. Granted, the failure rate of equipment manufactured by Nady, Behringer and their ilk is atrocious. Do your homework like I did, and you will find that Gemini is apparently not of the same cloth as these companies. Regardless, it makes no fiscal sense to pay $550 for a speaker (Eon) that is replaceable with a reasonable substitute costing $165. For this to make sense, you would have to assume a 75% failure rate of the less expensive cabinet. What are the chances of 3 of your 4 cabinets failing? Even if 1 of 4 does fail outside of the warranty period, the extra money spent for for JBL's makes no sense if there is a reasonable expectation that the 3 of the 4 Gemini's will last as long as 4 of 4 Eon's.I understand equipment snobbery, but in my 48 years as a working musician, I have learned to weigh out probabilities on lesser namebrands, except for those brands such as Nady and Behringer where even the smallest amount of internet reading will tell you that these are outside the scope of any reasonable statistical analysis.Mom So how many bands you know use Gemini for their monitors or mains ? vs bands that use more respected brands with proven track records. Beside I agree with Graig about IEM personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulwannabe Posted February 17, 2007 Members Share Posted February 17, 2007 I used to have a pair of in-ear monitors, but they broke. I was dumb enough to leave them sitting on my snare drum, and some kids came over to the house and were banging on my drums, and they knocked the IEM's to the floor. The next time I crawled behind my drums I accidentally stepped on one of the ear buds and it broke apart. The sound was still coming out, but the filter had snapped off. So I tried to super glue it back together, but I squeezed it together too hard and it shot across my basement into a huge pile of junk, never to be found again. I'd like to get another pair, but I need a better setup. The ones I had were not wireless, so I had to run a headphone amp from the aux out on my mixer, and then plug a headphone extension cord in to make it reach me. Needless to say, this was very uncomfortable. It would be great if the whole band could get a wireless setup, then we wouldn't have any more feedback trouble. I was wondering about communication on stage though, because when I was using my old IEMs I had to take them out in between songs so I could communicate with my bandmates. What did someone mention about a lavalier mic? To do it this way, I guess each member of the band would have their own lavalier mic, which would be run into a free channel on the mixer and only routed to the aux outs. Am I correct? I don't know if my mixer would have enough inputs to do this. Please explain how wireless IEM works, and how much money it would cost to get the band set up this way. (Right now we are a three piece). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 17, 2007 Members Share Posted February 17, 2007 By that line of thinking, my bottom of the quality barrel Phonic board I've had for 15 years should have long since died an unpleasant, smoky death. Granted, the failure rate of equipment manufactured by Nady, Behringer and their ilk is atrocious. Do your homework like I did, and you will find that Gemini is apparently not of the same cloth as these companies. Regardless, it makes no fiscal sense to pay $550 for a speaker (Eon) that is replaceable with a reasonable substitute costing $165. For this to make sense, you would have to assume a 75% failure rate of the less expensive cabinet. What are the chances of 3 of your 4 cabinets failing? Even if 1 of 4 does fail outside of the warranty period, the extra money spent for for JBL's makes no sense if there is a reasonable expectation that the 3 of the 4 Gemini's will last as long as 4 of 4 Eon's. Phonic is not necessicarily a bottom of the barrel brand... they are also an OEM manufacturer capable of some very good work. For example, they were an OEM contractor for some of Yamaha's consoles about 10-15 years ago. For me, it makes PLENTY of sense to avoid any failures where possible. If I can pay 4x as much to eliminate 4x as many failures, that's a great tradeoff IMO. My experience with Gemini is that aside from the reliability, they are unuseable for any of my applications from a performance standpoint, and they are heavy as hell for the performance they offer. They are also nowhere near as efficient as I need for any of my applications. If quality and performance are not important, it's a viable alternative for your application though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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