mixing FOH with Software and daws ever attempted?

[solomaniac17]

Has any one tried mixing with recording software and daws???

 

I usually mix off my A&H or my Yorkville powermax, I was curious what it would be like to mix with my recording software and sequencer. I use Cubase sx3 and Motu audio cards with 24 inputs, and 24 outputs. Is it possible to run everything through the software and audio cards.

 

FLAWS.

I understand the possiblity that the system could become unstable and crash since it is ran off an operating system, I just wanna know if anyone has mixed FOH using software such as LOGIC, OR PROTOOLS CUBASE ECT. maybe daw mixers, and soundcards??

 

I also understand the software isnt designed for this, but taking into consideration the thousands of phenomal pristine plugins from compression, and fairchilds. auto tune, and tub amps. I think it would be a creative idea to try out for somone who cant afford a really nice digital mixer at this time.

[flanc]

I'm sure it' possible as the latencies through these DAW's have come down to neglible. But...and I mean BUT...I wouldn't want to trust a DAW at a live show not to wig out. You pile-on a couple cool plug-in's and KA-Boom!

 

Anyway...I"m sure someone has tried this and would be interested in hearing any experiences. I'm guessing the new breed of digital mixers are a more road ready version of a DAW.

[Dogoth]

This idea comes up occasionaly on this board. With a system like Protools that uses DSP cards for all of it's processing (this means zero latency) It's theoreticly possible (although IMO not worth the effort). For "native" systems like steinberg the latency would make it unusable. Even if you have a great machine and great drivers and your latency is down to under 10ms this will wreak havoc with the time alignment of your sound system and could even mess with the "groove" if you use it for monitors.

 

There is a company (sorry I can't remember the name) that makes a hardware unit (something like 2-3 ru) which is made to run VST & VSTi plugins (I think it runs DX plugins as well) with no latency. So you can have those killer fairchild and eventide ..... effects anyway with out breaking the bank (it's still not a cheap unit but neither is a capable DAW).

[kevinnem]

 

This idea comes up occasionaly on this board. With a system like Protools that uses DSP cards for all of it's processing (this means zero latency) It's theoreticly possible (although IMO not worth the effort). For "native" systems like steinberg the latency would make it unusable. Even if you have a great machine and great drivers and your latency is down to under 10ms this will wreak havoc with the time alignment of your sound system and could even mess with the "groove" if you use it for monitors. There is a company (sorry I can't remember the name) that makes a hardware unit (something like 2-3 ru) which is made to run VST & VSTi plugins (I think it runs DX plugins as well) with no latency. So you can have those killer fairchild and eventide ..... effects anyway with out breaking the bank (it's still not a cheap unit but neither is a capable DAW).

 

 

RME latency can be better the 10 ms.

 

I don't think that 10 ms is really that noticable though. consider that speed of sound gives us about 1 foot per 1 ms +/- 10 ms is about 10 feet. so if you singer is 10 feet from your base player does that wreck it all? ... you monitors are about 6 feet from your ears "down and away...) .. that s half way there.

 

In the end I still would not do it though, as the computers are still to unreliable. Digital desks work cause they are purpose built...

 

Kev.

[where02190]

It's already being done. PM1D PM5D, Digico, Venue, etc. It's quickly becoming the standard for large tours. The recent Faith Hill/Tim McGraw tour used a pair of Digico consoles that were stacked in the hall, the FOH engineers mixed on tablet PC's connecting via wifi.

[Scodiddly]

 

It's already being done. PM1D PM5D, Digico, Venue, etc. It's quickly becoming the standard for large tours. The recent Faith Hill/Tim McGraw tour used a pair of Digico consoles that were stacked in the hall, the FOH engineers mixed on tablet PC's connecting via wifi.

 

 

Right, but I think we're arguing over whether a regular PC with regular ProTools would be useful - the systems you mention are all built and optimized for live sound mixing rather than recording. Digidesign pretty much started from scratch with the Venue hardware to make it reliable enough for concert use.

[Scodiddly]

Anyway, latency is an interesting issue. I think the majority of the dedicated live consoles are under 2-4 milliseconds. Of course you could add a couple-three more milliseconds in the speaker processor, and maybe if you're using a digital snake that's a another delay. So it would be possible to get up to 10mS pretty easily. Not a big deal for a big show, but could definitely be an issue in a small room. What I've noticed with system latency is that it can make the difference between "exciting live" and "acoustic natural" - less latency means things are more in front, more like a rock show.

[solomaniac17]

Ya,

 

I would think systems built for two main applications, Live sound, and studio. You can mix match, but in this case, I can see latency definetley playing out to be a problem if the system isnt calebrated properly. I think it would be fun to try, but I dont think I will be taking the risk regardless.