Members IsildursBane Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 I just talked to an agent about getting a renter's policy and one of the questions he asked was "How many electrical amps is the wiring?" which, after some prodding became "How many amps are going into the circuit box?" I told him that the main breaker on the box was 60A and after some explaining that this figure was, in fact, the one he was asking for (at least as far as I could tell), he told me that they couldn't write a policy for a service w/ less than 100A w/o getting an electrician to sign off on it. He was unable to give me any explanation as to why this was the case, so I turn to you and the collective experience of this forum. Do you have any idea why they would want me to have a 100A service? -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 I suspect his question was just a litmus test. The answer to one simple question can paint a fairly broad picture. Some might call this profileing. BTW: That's exactly what insurance companies do: profile. Insurance companies are generally in the business to make a profit. To make a profit, the company needs to collect more in premiums than it pays out in claims. One way to do this is by not taking accounts that are bad risks. Electrical fires are probably the #1 or #2 cause of fires in rentals. I would speculate that a 60A service to a rental dwelling indicates an high degree of electrical fire potential... and other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ear Abuser Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 60 amp services were pretty common in the 50's but starting in the sixties, 100amp services became the standard (at least in these parts). Today it's 200 amp but as the McMansions get bigger, bigger services are getting more common.A 60 amp service probably tells them that the wiring hasn't been updated since the 50's or early 60's , otherwise it would be a 100 amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 That's probably right, 60 amp, 1 ph services were common in pre-WW2 dwellings and that also indicates possibly poorer wiring practices and material. It also suggests that the service and branch wiring is more likely to be overloaded. Having an electrician check this over would give the insurance company confidence that it's up to reasonable modern code. There's nothing wrong with a 60 amp service in an apartment if it's done well. Other questions that are pertenant are the loads on the service... electric clothes dryer, air conditioning and cook top/oven. All of these fit into the load calculations. The general loads (code at 3w/sq ft) are not a big deal in an apartment typically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 A 60 amp service probably tells them that the wiring hasn't been updated since the 50's or early 60's , otherwise it would be a 100 amp. That's my guess too. I suspect the majority of rental insurance claims involve theft, fire, or water damage. I'd suspect that an electrical service that hasn't been updated since the '50's or early '60's (or earlier) would indicate little else has been substantively (risk wise) updated either. I doubt the plumbing has had a serious update, and I doubt there's a good security system. Also, I suspect profiling would suggest that if the electrical service hasn't been updated in 1/2 a century, the rental could be in a rough neighborhood... the heating system probably isn't cutting edge... therefore use of space heaters leaning against a bed sheet tacked over a window is a high possibility, and on, and on... Not to say this is the case with Dan's place, but I'd suspect insurance companies basically have a check list... and make gross assumptions based on which boxes are check and which are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 21, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yup, the minimum service for a residence should be 100 amp. If it's a 60 or (yikes!) 30 amp service, it indicates that the system is quite old (the 100 amp requirement dates back a few decades) and the rest of the system could very well not meet some basic requirements such as grounded outlets. Ask him what's up, and see if this is the case. If the outlets are grounded and GFCI's have been installed in the bath, kitchen and any basement or garage spaces, they may be willing to insure you. Be advised that you may not like the rates...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted February 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Thanks guys. You confirmed my suspicions. I asked him if the insurance company saw the 60A service as implying something else about the condition of the wiring, but he was totally clueless. He said that it was just the way the underwriting worked. And no, the wiring isn't anything to brag about. The house was built in the early 50's and I imagine it's original. I think there are only three 3-prong outlets in the whole house: the basement, the dining room, and a GFI in the bathroom (fed off the light switch no less, which means I have to recharge my razor somewhere else). Not that rent anywhere near Boston could be considered cheap, but this place is a relative bargain - I suppose the savings had to come from somewhere. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I asked him if the insurance company saw the 60A service as implying something else about the condition of the wiring, but he was totally clueless. He said that it was just the way the underwriting worked. Besides "just the way the underwriting works", here's some other handy phrases: 1) I don't know, it's just company policy. 2) I don't know, but I'll have an answer as soon as I can. 3) I don't know, I'll have to get management's approval on that. 4) I don't know, but it was like that when I got here. 5) I don't know. You'll have to find somebody that understands the codes on that. 6) I don't know, that's a little different than what I usually deal with. 7) Sorry, but that's been discontinued by the manufacture. I don't know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 22, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think there are only three 3-prong outlets in the whole house: the basement, the dining room, and a GFI in the bathroom (fed off the light switch no less, which means I have to recharge my razor somewhere else). A quick check with a $5 outlet tester will probably show that the 3-prong outlets aren't grounded. It's actually okay to have a GFCI on an ungrounded circuit...it will still protect against faults without a grounding conductor. But the receptacle should have a sticker that states it's not grounded (that's what those stickers in the GFCI box are for). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 And no, the wiring isn't anything to brag about. The house was built in the early 50's and I imagine it's original. I think there are only three 3-prong outlets in the whole house: the basement, the dining room, and a GFI in the bathroom (fed off the light switch no less, which means I have to recharge my razor somewhere else). -Dan. Does the outlet only work when the lights are on? If the outlet is getting its power from the box that the switch is in, that is totally normal. If it is tripping or acting funny it could be that the line/load is messed up. This is usually what screws up a GFI or just the outlet itself is messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I understood it to mean the receptacle is fed from the switched leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 22, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 And if the source feeds the box, it would be a simple matter to rewire so the switch doesn't control the outlet. But a lot of houses feed the lamp box instead of the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted February 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 Does the outlet only work when the lights are on? Yes. It doesn't appear to be faulty; just annoying. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.