Members ey86798 Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hi all, I've lurked here for a while and learned a lot in the process, but just reqistered as I have a question I hope you can help with. I'm doing sound for a gig at my church next month. I'll be hiring in FOH gear (HK Actor), and using the church board (Spirit Live 24:4:2) and my own outboards as the church has none. The band's rider specifies 3 monitor mixes, which the board can provide, however I have only 2 graphics and will probably use one of these for FOH. I do however have a Digitech Studio Quad in my guitar rack, which is able to be used as either one 31-band or 2 independent 15-band graphic(s). Now I know that real graphics would be better, but - is using this FX unit to EQ the monitors likely to be better or worse than nothing at all? It is supposed to be a (budget) studio unit and not a guitar processor so in theory the noise and response should be reasonable. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not viable for monitors. Have the rental (hire) company bring in the required eq's. You don't want to start off with the band on the wrong foot. Also, isn't the FOH system coming with a mixer and processing??? Or are you hiring stacks and racks only? If it's stacks & racks, have them provide a 1/3 octave eq for FOH as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ey86798 Posted February 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Thanks for your reply. Definitely don't want to start on the wrong foot, hence my question.We're hiring self-powered stacks only (http://www.hkaudio.com/products.php?ptype=ps&mode=prod&id=8&pk_id=2?=facts) and using the church's own desk and monitors. The church has no EQ for these, and as volumes will be considerably higher for a band than for Sunday worship I want to be prepared for any feedback problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Good reason to go out and either buy or rent these pieces then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ey86798 Posted February 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Yup. Off to ebay to look for some more EQ. I'm sure I'll use it for other things too...Haven't come here to ask advice then ignore it:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Talent Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 You using the auxs as monitor sends?- I hope they are switchable to pre-eq/fader or you my have some trouble.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 Generally pre-eq vs. post is not a big sticking point but post fader would be a deal breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Talent Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 Generally pre-eq vs. post is not a big sticking point but post fader would be a deal breaker. When using auxes for monitors sends, yeah... but I prefer to have monitor sends pre-eq.. I run with a 24x4x2 Allen Heath which has 4 auxes.. it came wired 2 pre and 2 post fader... and instructions on how to set the jumpers (done individually on each I/O- pre-fader, preEQ/fader, and post fader)... because I run three monitor mixes I had to solder 24 jumpers on aux B to get a 3rd pre-EQ/fader send..lol (B,C,and D I use for monitors.. aux A for verb).. I use the group outs to feed my time-based effects and return them to open channels that are bussed to main L/R outs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ey86798 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 I don't think I've ever worked with pre-EQ monitor sends, and it's never been a problem. But then I tend to cut rather than boost whenever possible and don't use the desk to do radical/wacky tone-shaping in a live context. This particular desk has 6 auxes - 3 pre-fade, 3 post-fade (one switchable to pre-fade if needed). Returning to the original question if I may - does anyone think there *is* a viable use for the graphic or parametric EQ provided by a multi-FX unit? Is it radically different from a dedicated digital EQ like an Autograph? They're both just DSP chips internally, right? I guess there's a good deal less program ROM dedicated to the EQ algorithms in a multi-FX and hence they're just not so sophisticated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 23, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Returning to the original question if I may - does anyone think there *is* a viable use for the graphic or parametric EQ provided by a multi-FX unit? Is it radically different from a dedicated digital EQ like an Autograph? They're both just DSP chips internally, right? I guess there's a good deal less program ROM dedicated to the EQ algorithms in a multi-FX and hence they're just not so sophisticated? Within the context of use, the EQ's could be useful for tone shaping of the effects signal itself, but I find that to be of minimal value in a live setting as I also do with compression and other add-ons in fx units. Just give me a good room 'verb and a good usable delay, and I'm a happy camper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 User interface is the primary reason, also signal routing (how it's handled within the context of everything else. DSP isn't just about the processing, it's about how easy and user-friendly it is to somebody. I'm just saying that if I came across a kludge like that on a gig, I would be less than happy. I don't need to deal with that kind of crap in order to save a couple hundred dollars *even buying it new!!!). It just sets the tone for future problem handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ey86798 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'm taking your advice and not doing it! I agree totally on the UI front, I can imagine trying to kill a feedback frequency in a hurry.... I'm going to souce some decent EQ used, from Ebay or elsewhere. It's not like I'll never use it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 What about new? There are some good values out there, Alto is one option on your side of the pond. I would suggest DBX-231's but don't know if they are competative there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 23, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I know DOD isn't a big name, but I've had a dual 31-band that's performed just fine in my rack for several years. Got it from MF for $99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Talent Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 I don't think I've ever worked with pre-EQ monitor sends, and it's never been a problem. But then I tend to cut rather than boost whenever possible and don't use the desk to do radical/wacky tone-shaping in a live context. This particular desk has 6 auxes - 3 pre-fade, 3 post-fade (one switchable to pre-fade if needed).Returning to the original question if I may - does anyone think there *is* a viable use for the graphic or parametric EQ provided by a multi-FX unit? Is it radically different from a dedicated digital EQ like an Autograph? They're both just DSP chips internally, right? I guess there's a good deal less program ROM dedicated to the EQ algorithms in a multi-FX and hence they're just not so sophisticated? I don't do anything radical either... but if I want to tweak an individual vocal EQ (as opposed to tweaking the vocal group EQ) I don't want those changes to affect the monitor mix- that's all.. Digital graphic EQs can be hard to fight feedback in a hurry, and sometimes (depending on the lighting) its hard to read the windows (especially in the sunlight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ey86798 Posted March 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 20, 2007 OK, the gig was last Friday and went of near perfectly. This was the band, and they were very happy. In the end, I procured a Peavey 31 band graphic (EQ-31) and a pair of Peavey Autographs, all from ebay.co.uk. The Autographs have a Feedback Finder which is not documented in the manual, I guess I must have a later rev. of the firmware or something; anyway, it made ringing out the monitors a piece of cake. The 3 EQ's were used on the 3 monitor mixes, and no outboard EQ at all on the FOH, which was run in mono, a decision taken because of the width of the room. FOH system was a HK Projector which I found to be superb, although over-powered for the size of room and being a long-throw rig (the hire co. had *sold* the HK Actor rig we had intended to use, which may have been better suited to the event). Anyway, thanks to everyone for your advice. I'm pleased I didn't go with my original idea. And I've now got some decent quality EQ for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 20, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 Sounds as if you've found some good usable gear there. Glad it worked out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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