Members BrianVickers Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 Hi,my band and I are looking into buying a new PA system for practicing. I want to specify that none of us have any professional knowledge about this therefore, no idea how to shop for this. For years we've been using a Peavey PA, which is th XR 600F (2x200 watts).we are using it with 2 PVI 115 8ohms speakers and 1 TLM 2 floor monitor speaker. We have two or three vocal mics (all sm58s) and we don't mic any of our instruments. Our rehearsal place is big enough to fit a 5 piece band and the wall are well padded for sound not to bounce off everywhere. Here is our problem...We can barely hear the vox. The PA seems to still have juice to give but at a certain level it feedbacks so we can't push it. Eq'ing out the specific frequencies helps a bit but not enough to make a difference. We do play loud but we try to keep the guitar and bass amps just so the drummer doesn't take over everything. Our goal is to achieve as good of a sound as we can get when we play live using a good monitor mix. So we are wondering if want to go with a power amp, 4 floor monitors and a mixer. Getting a completely new PA system. Or, keeping some of the stuff we have and upgrading it. any advices? Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. D Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 I am by no means anything approximating an expert, but your PA setup sounds sufficient for a rehearsal PA. How is the room arranged when you rehearse? In particular, where are the PA mains and monitors in relation to the mics? You may have better results with even minor adjustments to the arrangement of the mics and PA cabs. At the very least, be sure to avoid pointing the mics towards the PA cabs. Hopefully, someone with more expertise can chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 Sounds like MrD is right.Try speaker placement and if that doesn't help your problem may be excessive volume in a small room rehearsal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 speaker placement. I'd get them off the floor. You have less sound pressure on the mics and through the floor and more directly to your ear. buy a couple of cheap keyboard stands and put them on those. Also, in my experience an anti feedback machine is better than a graphic eq for such a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrianVickers Posted March 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 Thanx guys, the speakers are set up in a very standard way. Every musician has it's own floor monitor place in front of him. The mics are never pointed at the speakers either. We tried using speaker stands and we had the same problem. I don't understand why on stage we can get such good monitoring and in rehearsal everything has to be so messy. Is that because of the quality of our sound system, our speakers. I'm guessing we would risk damaging the PA if we add more monitors too. I will definitely try the anti-feedback thing. Can any of you guys can tell tell me what is the typical stage monitoring setup for a four piece band in a 200 people club. Maybe that will give me perspective. Because honestly we are willing to spend big bucks for our monitoring system if we have to, but we obviously want to get professional advice first. Once again thatx for your replies guys. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrianVickers Posted March 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 here is a pic of our standard set up. Don't minds the mics on the drums, they are not hooked up to the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 I see a lot of reflective wood panelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 That wood is fairly reflective. You can hangs some blankets/comforters to tame it a bit. Likely, you'll have to turn everything else DOWN. Start with the drummer. Have him use those bamboo bundled quiet sticks (forget the name) and to use a bit of dynamic control. The guitars can come down to match the drums and then maybe you can get the vocals above the mix without feedback.EDIT: Those quiet sticks for drums are called Hot Rods: http://www.music123.com/Promark-Hot-Rods-H-RODS-Drum-Sticks-i17011.music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 Hmm... your PA seems like it should be big enough for practicing with. sounds like you have the vocals as loud as you can get them without having feedback... so, you are not prpably going to get them any louder. maybe setting the monitors up off the ground closer to where the muscian's ears are at would permit the existing level of loudness to be better heard? OR, you could try to get the other stuff at a lower level, like the guitars and drums and stuff. I have heard a lot of people say that fit is best to practice at a LOW VOLUME, so you can hear yourselves and each other better./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrianVickers Posted March 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 thanx for your help guys.At least I know my PA should be able to do the job. So I will look into trying to optimize the room and speaker placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members windbag Posted March 5, 2007 Members Share Posted March 5, 2007 Just to add my thoughts - we have the same problem with rehearsal but in our case it's fairly clear the room is the main culprit. We can't practically damp it and the ceiling's quite low, so everything tends to get far too loud and feedback is our biggest headache (apart from not being able to play very well). We also found getting the speakers off the floor wasn't much help, but we made progress by using Beyer M2012 mics instead of SM57's and SM58's, which gave us a bit more volume. Still have truble with the drums - maybe we should try the hot rods, too. The good thing is that we know we won't be struggling the same way when we get out to a gig. We've tried feedback destroyers and though it helped a bit we decided it wasn't worth the effort in the end (and I had so much gear on a mobile rack I had to build a ramp to get it back in the 4x4 afterwards ... We ought to go somewhere else to rehearse, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted March 6, 2007 Members Share Posted March 6, 2007 We have exactly the same problem. Part of it is that the room we play in is too bright. I wish I knew how to tame it (it's a gyprock lined shed with blankets hanging on angled panels). Any ideas? The other problem is that the drums are too loud. So then the guitars have to be loud. So then the vocals have to be up. So then you get feedback (just like the first poster). Other than those sticks (which our drummer has - maybe we can try them) what else can the drummer do to get softer? We 've talked about him playing softer, but the problem he describes is that this totally changes the dynamics for him. We've explored for pads on the drums, but it messes up the bounce for the drummer, which detracts from rehearsal for him. What do people do in this case? Great thread! Thanks for the answers already! GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 6, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 You've got three speakers all facing away from each other. This arrangement will tend to make them cancel each other to some extent. It also makes any ringing frequencies much more unstable and likely to got over the edge into feedback. Add the wall reflectivity, and you've got part of the problem. How loud is 'loud'?? You can't rehearse at performance level, period. Get the drums quieter any way possible. Set up so that everyone is facing the same direction, and set up all the amps and speakers on the opposite wall facing everyone, preferably at ear level. You should be able to get somewhat better gain before feedback this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted March 6, 2007 Members Share Posted March 6, 2007 Funny! I was just thinking "gee, rehearse facing each other - that's a neat idea!" Maybe not so neat, from a sound point of view, I guess you're saying! (we rehearse facing the "audience", the idea being to be accustomed to that) GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted March 14, 2007 Members Share Posted March 14, 2007 Have him use those bamboo bundled quiet sticks (forget the name) and to use a bit of dynamic control. You tamed bigmac!? :eek: GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted March 14, 2007 Members Share Posted March 14, 2007 Brian: look at this thread in the Phil O Keefe forum. Helped me a lot. GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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