Members deltaleader Posted March 9, 2007 Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 I am looking to purchase a PA setup to do small to medium size gigs. Currently I dont have anything portable so I am starting this from scratch. I will be doing mostly indoor stuff but some of the medium sized gigs could be outdoors and probably less than 500 peeps. After lurking and researching on this forum and others, here is what I am thinking for my initial purchase: A&H PA20-CP Powered Mixer2x QSC HPR153F 15 3-Way Powered Speakers2x B-52 MX-MN 15 15 Inch Two Way Stage Monitor 300 Watts Secondary purchase down the road or should that be now?:2x B-52 ACT-18X Active 18" 1200W Subwoofer So I am thinking of running the PA20 in monitor mode using the internal amp to power the stage monitors. The QSC powered speakers would be my mains. Outside of cables, stage snake, and equipment cases. Is there anything I should be getting with a basic setup like this?? I would like to keep things somewhat simple and not interested in going crazy right now with compressors, effects, etc. But I think some might say a 1/3 EQ on the mains would be important. What are you thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 9, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 An EQ on the monitors would probably be more helpful. I'd consider going with a passive mixer and all powered speakers. It doesn't make a lot of sense to use a powered mixer and powered speakers unless there's some other consideration that wasn't mentioned. For the most part a powered mixer is fine if you're not going to expand much beyond what it can power. You're already there before you've bought anything, and you plan to add subs. Just go with all powered. If you get 4 identical speakers, 2 can be tops and 2 monitors, or for big gigs you rent racks 'n stacks, and use all four as monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deltaleader Posted March 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2007 ... unless there's some other consideration that wasn't mentioned. My main reason was cost. I want to stick with an A&H board. The PA20-CP was a good option since the cost was only slightly more than the MixWiz 16:2 and I would get an amp built in for flexibility. Buying powered monitor speakers was looking like it was going to cost me a lot more. Thanks for the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 10, 2007 Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 Some guys like active cabs personally I stay away even though they might sound a little better then mid to entry level passive cabs but your {censored}ed if the internal amp blows because your clueless on gain structure. Also a lot of times in some of the venues we do here in my area AR., just aint enough a juice to carry 4-8 active cabs sometimes we have a hard time just carry 2 amps because the it's an old building that been wired back before old Ben Franklin discover electricity and has been tampered with and Jerry rigged more then a Hooker on motorized roller skates. We went with a passive system because sometimes we don't need the tops and subs, just 2 wedges on a pole and 2 on stage because the venue so dam small like a midget's casket. The stage wash alone, from our back line gear is plenty to cover the black tooth grinned folks hollering gitter done gitter done. But anyway I suggest buying a Yamaha SR book it's the handbook for beginners to experts and will really help you understand how to operate and maintain your PA system and usually they're dirt cheap on eBay it's one of the best investments I ever made. Besides my microbrewy and six pack of twat in a can any way good luck on the PA purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted March 10, 2007 Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 QSC HPR boxes were designed around venues with low power or lack of proper power needed to run a PA or DJ system. I like powered systems for many reasons, built in limiters, proper power amps, DSP and sometimes crossovers. For some speakers, weight isnt a factor. (subs can be heavy!) I like having passive boxes as front stage monitors only because they have one less cord to worry about and don't have to run long ex-cords, but I wouldn't want my mixer to power them. If you have to run the mixer off stage you will always have to worry about long enough cables or even if you do get a snake then you will have to get 100' 12 gauge speaker cables to match, you will lose power with that long of a run plus they ain't cheap! Pain in the butt to lay out and roll up. Your better off using all powered stuff or getting an amp for the monitors and using a passive mixer. Another nice thing using the right amp for the passive speakers is that you may be able to double up on the monitors if needed someday running 4 boxes with a 4ohm load. Active monitors can be daisy chained. Using the powered mixer your probably stuck with what you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 10, 2007 Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 QSC HPR boxes were designed around venues with low power or lack of proper power needed to run a PA or DJ system. I like powered systems for many reasons, built in limiters, proper power amps, DSP and sometimes crossovers. For some speakers, weight isnt a factor. (subs can be heavy!) I like having passive boxes as front stage monitors only because they have one less cord to worry about and don't have to run long ex-cords, but I wouldn't want my mixer to power them. If you have to run the mixer off stage you will always have to worry about long enough cables or even if you do get a snake then you will have to get 100' 12 gauge speaker cables to match, you will lose power with that long of a run plus they ain't cheap! Pain in the butt to lay out and roll up. Your better off using all powered stuff or getting an amp for the monitors and using a passive mixer. Another nice thing using the right amp for the passive speakers is that you may be able to double up on the monitors if needed someday running 4 boxes with a 4ohm load. Active monitors can be daisy chained. Using the powered mixer your probably stuck with what you got. Dude your in a the one of the richest state in a America with strick electrical codes and I'm in one of the poorest states in a America I guarantee your active cabs wouldn't last long out here because of brown outs improper wiring codes and you start running extension chords in these old places your really asking for trouble just ask DeathmetalJim here on HC he's close to the same part of the state I live. I rather lose a little bit of power in a cable run then have a brown out fry my active cab which happened once on another band's active cab. But hey I agree usually active cabs sound better then mid to entry passive cab. They won't compete with they higher end cabs because when you start triamping those baby your active cabs start to fart out when the triamp just starts to warm up plus hell of lot more SPL for gigging out doors. Which we do a lot here in this area but that's our rig. Hey your happy with them and I'm happy for your glad to know your love your active cabs just don't work for our needs I'm not telling the OP not to go active just saying it easier to get replacement parts for a passive system in case your have problems. Anyway I have my own problem with a new drummer that thinks he's a master Sound Engineer but anyway good luck to the OP on whatever you decide let us know what you decided to go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted March 10, 2007 Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 I guarantee your active cabs wouldn't last long out here because of brown outs improper wiring codes and you start running extension chords in these old places your really asking for trouble Where are you ... in the middle of darkest Africa? Why would this be a problem only to active speakers? Wouldn't the same thing happen to any power amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted March 10, 2007 Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 Being able to get by on the least power is one the the best reasons to go with an active cab in my view. The amps are engineered to properly meet the needs of the drivers and no more. Processing and limiting are built in as well and I would trust the engineers to have designed them to efficiently use as little power as possible since power is money and every little bit saved helps their bottom line. By chance, I have also been considering the HPR line for our upgrade and as far as the 12" version goes, they pull right around 1.5 amps each. (1/8 power EIA noise) Most all MI grade stand alone amps are going pull the same if not a lot more so I don't see where your power supply argument holds water. Any amp can burn out from low power and it doesn't care whether it's sitting in a rack or inside a speaker. I also don't buy the argument that it's always easier to work around a lost amp with a passive set up, unless of course your running a big enough system to carry back up amps to every gig. Either way I'm out an amp and I will have to punt and limp through the night with some kind of cobbled together patchup. For my money the benfits of active cabs far out weigh the risks. Although I do still prefer passive monitors for your same reasons of keeping cord runs to a minimum on stage. As for the OP, I would rather have the 31 band EQ on my monitors before the mains. Otherwise, good mics would be at the top of my list and don't even think about covering 500 with that set up with out subs and even then your well in the danger zone. YMMV, Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 10, 2007 Members Share Posted March 10, 2007 I guarantee your active cabs wouldn't last long out here because of brown outs improper wiring codes and you start running extension chords in these old places your really asking for trouble Where are you ... in the middle of darkest Africa? Why would this be a problem only to active speakers? Wouldn't the same thing happen to any power amps? Darkest Africa you could say that Mark(Audiopile) said the same thing , the electric company brought me a pole and a meter and told me your own after setting the pole and pluged the meter in. It's backwoods as it gets which I love it nearest neighbor is about a 1/2 mile away. I live in Monroe OK. up on the side of Poteau mountain it's 1 mile from the AR state line 30 miles from Ft. Smith AR. were the Hanging Judge Parker resided at. There's no cops no city ordinance BS here the county does patrol the area once in a blue moon, it has one store it's old town with a population of 200 legend has it that the James gang use to hide up on the other mountain called Sugarloaf along with Bell Star used to be an old hotel on Sugarloaf were it was claimed they use to frequent the Hotel and Saloon but it just here say and the place got burnt down. But anyway back to the OP question it really doesn't mater what you go with as long as you buy decent FOH cabs because that's what your crowd gonna hear. I can see using active probably more user friendly. Triamping a passive system can be tricky only downside with a active system is doing outdoor festival with active system seems like it would take a lot of cabs to do it justice I dunno I never use a active system for outdoors just our passive system triamping which works out great for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Some guys like active cabs personally I stay away even though they might sound a little better then mid to entry level passive cabs but your {censored}ed if the internal amp blows because your clueless on gain structure. Also a lot of times in some of the venues we do here in my area AR., just aint enough a juice to carry 4-8 active cabs sometimes we have a hard time just carry 2 amps because the it's an old building that been wired back before old Ben Franklin discover electricity and has been tampered with and Jerry rigged more then a Hooker on motorized roller skates. We went with a passive system because sometimes we don't need the tops and subs, just 2 wedges on a pole and 2 on stage because the venue so dam small like a midget's casket. The stage wash alone, from our back line gear is plenty to cover the black tooth grinned folks hollering gitter done gitter done. But anyway I suggest buying a Yamaha SR book it's the handbook for beginners to experts and will really help you understand how to operate and maintain your PA system and usually they're dirt cheap on eBay it's one of the best investments I ever made. Besides my microbrewy and six pack of twat in a can any way good luck on the PA purchase. Let me correct a few factual errors that perhaps would suggest a review of some basic principles in your rant... 1. You will be more likely to screw up the gain structure in a seperately powered system, as there are more places to alter the manufacturer's gain staging. 2. The amplifiers in a powered speaker are WAY more likely to be reliable and survive poor judgement. For one thing, there is NO bridge switch. 3. There will be no power difference between 2 amps driving speakers and an equiv. amount of powered speakers. The power drawn from the wall will be proportional to the volume the speaker is played at. 4. Buying the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook would be a good idea for many of you guys. There's a lot of good information beyond basic operation of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 12, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 My main reason was cost. I want to stick with an A&H board. The PA20-CP was a good option since the cost was only slightly more than the MixWiz 16:2 and I would get an amp built in for flexibility. Buying powered monitor speakers was looking like it was going to cost me a lot more. Thanks for the feedback! The amp built in is not flexible...it limits you to finding speakers that are correctly powered by it, and that's the opposite of what you want to do....find speakers that sound good to you, and then power them appropriately. With active speakers, that second part is figured out for you, so it's even simpler, and you get the big bonus of a bi-amped system most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Also, typically, powered speakers use smaller amps than they recommend for their passive versions. (not sure why) Probably safer all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 12, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 Also, typically, powered speakers use smaller amps than they recommend for their passive versions. (not sure why)Probably safer all around. Hint: They warranty both, but one's a lot easier to get out of, since they didn't supply the power that blew it up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deltaleader Posted March 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Thanks for all the great feedback. I think what I need to do is ditch the powered mixer idea and go with a passive one. Sounds like my mains in this case (QSC Powered Speakers) will be good. As for the monitors, I really can go two ways, buy an amp and appropriate speakers OR just go with powered monitors. If I go powered monitors, I would probably use my SRM450's which have worked and sounded great over the years for me. I think this would give me a good quality setup that would sound great. As for the mixer, I have been stuck on A&H lately, but will need to look at a good passive solution that gives me everything I need. I currently use the A&H MixWiz 14:4:2 in my home studio. Great board and I assume the 16:2 is just as good. However, I see alot of 16:2's for sale on ebay and such, something up with these boards? I am wondering if I should be looking at something else in the Upper Mid to High end mixers 16-20 channels??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 12, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 Thanks for all the great feedback. I think what I need to do is ditch the powered mixer idea and go with a passive one. Sounds like my mains in this case (QSC Powered Speakers) will be good. As for the monitors, I really can go two ways, buy an amp and appropriate speakers OR just go with powered monitors. If I go powered monitors, I would probably use my SRM450's which have worked and sounded great over the years for me. I think this would give me a good quality setup that would sound great.As for the mixer, I have been stuck on A&H lately, but will need to look at a good passive solution that gives me everything I need. I currently use the A&H MixWiz 14:4:2 in my home studio. Great board and I assume the 16:2 is just as good. However, I see alot of 16:2's for sale on ebay and such, something up with these boards? I am wondering if I should be looking at something else in the Upper Mid to High end mixers 16-20 channels??? Nothing wrong with the 16:2....it's very popular, so you'll simply see a lot more on the used market at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.