Members stevehollx Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Our current practice space is, well, a less than ideal room acoustically. We have a loud drummer, and a small room. So the practice volume is loud to compensate. We've got a 800 watt PA power amp we're feeding vocals into, and some old Peavey T-3000 towers. We can't get the vocals loud enough without it ringing. I figure it's mostly due to bad acoustics in a small room, so I'm thinking if we patch an EQ in and pull out the hot frequencies off the room it would tame the issue and allow us to add more gain to the signal. I figure I can run AutoEQWizard, and throw the SM-58 into the input on the computer, and send the audio out the mixing board. That way, I know what frequencies the room as amplifying (and what frequencies the vocal mic is picking up the most), and use the information to EQ. Do you think this will tame our ringing problem, or should we be looking more at other issues (the crappy Behringer mixer & room acoustics). Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members summit111 Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 My Brother, A loud drummer is the start of an acoustic chain reaction. If he's loud, then someone else turns up, and so on. Soon you have a mess like you're talking about. Our band has a decent size room, but we control the levels, and I'm the drummer. In another theatrical style group I play in, the rehearsals are almost acoustic, with very little amplfication. Tell him to play in control. You'll play better live, and your ears will thank you later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndyLoud Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 by "ringing", do you mean feedback? is it just a bare room? or have you got anything covering the walls to try and kill some of the sound. if you don't, try hanging some curtains over the wall behind the PA speakers. if that doesn't work, hang more curtains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Eq can help, especially with sub-optimeal speakers, but you can excpect to gain maybe 4 or 5dB from this technique in a poor acoustic space such as a rehersal room. Treating the acoustic nightmare (think fire safety too) will gain some additional improvement, and more improvement will come from playing at lower levels. Lowering your playing volume is the most cost effective solution, and it's easier on your ears too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevehollx Posted March 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 By ringing, I did mean feedback. Drummer is stubborn, and although he's got chops, telling him to watch his dynamics and playing velocity will go right over his head. Probably biggger battles to fight with him (like getting him to record with a click, upgrade his equipment, etc) first. Yeah, we have carpet hanging on one wall and on the floor, and foam on the other, but the other two sides are bare. Maybe we'll go dumpster diving behind a carpet store and treat the other two walls and ceiling to some smelly, shaggy goodness. Do you think if we built a plexi-glass shield for the drummer, it would help things by allowing us to not have to play as loud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Do you think if we built a plexi-glass shield for the drummer, it would help things by allowing us to not have to play as loud? Possibly. PS carpet really doesn't do anything. It'll soften some of the frequencies above something like 8k (getting rid of some of the audible reverb in the room), but chances are most of your problems will be in the midrange and especially the low end. If you're going to treat the space you should look into some actual acoustic dampening. It's a lot denser and thicker than carpet so it has good broadband absorption. Auralex Acoustics has some great packages that are fairly expensive, but are easy to use and do the job very well. RealTraps acoustics has some very nice acoustic trapping systems, but I find them somewhat cumbersome and very expensive. They do a fantastic job though. Also, if you can manage to get some 2" thick Owens-Corning 703 or 705 rigid fiberglass insulation in 2x4' panels, then you can just build your own acoustic treatment. Screw some strips of wood together for a frame and wrap fabric around it to keep the panel and it's fibers in place... and put those up. Chances are you'll need a lot. Read this article and head to the RealTraps website, you'll learn a lot about acoustics and what to and what not to do. I've got a fairly large garage that we play in, that just has chipboard on the walls (they're insulated) with no treatment and a concrete floor, so reflections galore. My drummer plays loud but we have loud practices as well, I've got a pair of 700w peavey speakers and a yorkie powered sub. After some hardcore EQ work I can blast it full-tilt with no ring. I have no problem getting the vocals on top. So yeah, you should probably have a 31-band EQ in your chain at all times anyways to get rid of feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Yes, you can get some more volume by pulling back the hot frequencies. But you've already isolated the source of your problem. Why not deal with that instead of trying to work around it and beat your head against the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Carpet has significant absorbtion above 1k, and can be an excellent solution... but note that some carpet will burn and placing it on a vertical surface will insure rapid combustion if it is indeed flamable. Acoustical carpet treatment products (Acoustisorb etc) carries a class A fire rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Yeah, we have carpet hanging on one wall and on the floor, and foam on the other, but the other two sides are bare. Maybe we'll go dumpster diving behind a carpet store and treat the other two walls and ceiling to some smelly, shaggy goodness. I suggest that if you have any aspirations of sharing your music with the general public, then what you currently have for practice space acoustics probably fairly effectively replicates what exists at many public venues. Therefore, I'd suggest leaving the acoustic treatment of your practice space as-is, or better yet: tear the existing carpet and foam off the two treated walls... and maybe consider building a false floor about a foot high constructed with 2x4 joists on about 2ft. centers with a bare 1/2" plywood covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 11, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 11, 2007 By ringing, I did mean feedback. Drummer is stubborn, and although he's got chops, telling him to watch his dynamics and playing velocity will go right over his head. Probably biggger battles to fight with him (like getting him to record with a click, upgrade his equipment, etc) first.Yeah, we have carpet hanging on one wall and on the floor, and foam on the other, but the other two sides are bare. Maybe we'll go dumpster diving behind a carpet store and treat the other two walls and ceiling to some smelly, shaggy goodness.Do you think if we built a plexi-glass shield for the drummer, it would help things by allowing us to not have to play as loud? Yes, a plexi shield will help, if it's placed so that the drummer can't enter your rehearsal space. There's a lot more to drumming chops than hitting the skins hard and fast. Based on what you wrote, the guy's got poor meter, no dynamic control, an inability to learn anything different, and doesn't care to work with you to sound like a band. If that about sums it up, it would seem replacement with a drum machine (which does have dynamic control) would be the best improvement to your rehearsals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted March 14, 2007 Members Share Posted March 14, 2007 There is great information in the thread called "Basic Rehearsal Room Treatement" in the Phil O Keefe Forum (about 3 up from this one). I learned a _lot_ there. Especially go to Ethan's page on the topic (link in thread). The summary is "apply acoustic treament with sound absorbing panels". GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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