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Bandmates are finally listening to me...


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...I hope. (Continuation from my last thread)

 

I picked up two more Peavey monitors that match two of my others, so I have four 1-12 Ti's, all identical, across the front.

 

We also just ordered three Senn's e935's, across the front. Now I just have to make the monitors good and loud with no feedback and everyone will be happy. I have some ideas about that, but I am doing a little more research. I had thought about one of those automatic feedback-busters, but people who use them talked me out of it. The first two gigs will both be outdoor, so acoustic problems should be minimal.

 

More to follow in the weeks ahead.

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What are you using for EQs? I would suggest a peavey with the feedback locating system. I use to use the fx215 with good results. They have been discontinued and the newer version is the QF series. You could probably find some used FX series fairly cheap.

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I like the automatic feedback units better than the 31 band graphic EQs. I got no ego invesment in moving some sliders when a machine can do it better and more efficiently, with less distruction to the overall sound. the automatic machines are more precise in identifying the feedback and are less wide than the the graphic eq. The result is a better sounding PA system when you use those machines. That's the claim of the manufacturer's and that has indeed been my experience. The graphic eq can adjust the eq curve for to make the overall sound more pleasing, but they are definitely second class for ridding feedback in a more sonically pleasing way. I think the people who poo poo these machines are addicted to old ways and suffer from improper use. :wave:

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Good automatic feedback reduction tools might work.

 

I had a Behringer shark and it was a nightmare to use.

 

The biggest advantage an automatic feedback suppression tool is it will have narrower bands and more of them.

 

In my experience, when I take the time to ring out the system properly for the room (plenty of post on how to do it) the sound does not change noticeably. I use a DOD 31 band graphic eq.

 

Stv

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I like the automatic feedback units better than the 31 band graphic EQs. I got no ego invesment in moving some sliders when a machine can do it better and more efficiently, with less distruction to the overall sound. the automatic machines are more precise in identifying the feedback and are less wide than the the graphic eq. The result is a better sounding PA system when you use those machines. That's the claim of the manufacturer's and that has indeed been my experience. The graphic eq can adjust the eq curve for to make the overall sound more pleasing, but they are definitely second class for ridding feedback in a more sonically pleasing way. I think the people who poo poo these machines are addicted to old ways and suffer from improper use.
:wave:

 

 

Typically those who recommend against them do so because they've seen (and heard) many examples of people who use them attempting to get way more gain than the system can deliver, which is the factor that kills the mix. You're much better off using a decent 31-band properly adjusted than any FBK....if you avoid feedback in the first place, the mix doesn't suffer at all, and it's also much more consistent. This isn't such a big deal for monitor mixes, but is a problem for FOH.

 

It doesn't make sense to have only an FBK. You can't ring out the system unless it's got an RTA....and you are permitted to use it...and you can't adjust for the room's acoustics.

 

An FBK is one tool in the kit. IMO it should be used in conjunction with, not instead of, a 31-band EQ as a last line of defense.

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Long time ago...

 

Today, we had our first gig with the new equipment in line, since some stuff was back-ordered and didn't arrive for last weekend's gigs. (We still have one piece missing, but the mics came in, so we geared everything up.) Using four (three actually) identical monitors across the front, and using three identical mics (Senn e935's), we eq'ed and rang out the monitors before we started. The results....

 

It cooked! And, I do mean that it cooked! The monitors were clean and clear and crisp, and not one time in a three-hour gig did I have to adjust for any feedback. There was no feedback of any kind, and the monitors were louder than normal.

 

I am a happy camper. We should have done this a long time ago! We have our third-Sat-of-the-month stage show this weekend, but the acoustics are so good in that theater that we have never had a problem with feedback. I will report any problems or quirks should some develop over the next several weeks.

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Typically those who recommend against them do so because they've seen (and heard) many examples of people who use them attempting to get way more gain than the system can deliver, which is the factor that kills the mix. You're much better off using a decent 31-band properly adjusted than any FBK....if you avoid feedback in the first place, the mix doesn't suffer at all, and it's also much more consistent. This isn't such a big deal for monitor mixes, but is a problem for FOH.


It doesn't make sense to have only an FBK. You can't ring out the system unless it's got an RTA....and you are permitted to use it...and you can't adjust for the room's acoustics.


An FBK is one tool in the kit. IMO it should be used in conjunction with, not instead of, a 31-band EQ as a last line of defense.

Yep. Since you obviously want an EQ on your monitors anyway, if you use it efficiently, it should eliminate nearly all potential feedback possibilities, so the feedback destroyer is kind of a wasted addition. They do have some funky lights on them, which seems important to some people.:thu:

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I have had pretty good luck with the Sabine feedback eliminator units. I run them using 8 fixed filters and no live filters. Usually don't have problems unless..........I see a a Marshall half stack and or a SVT 8x10 rolling in the door.....I do still have 31 band just in case........I dont run any FBX on..... FOH.....just on the wedges.

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If somebody moves a wedge or mic around, this can definately change things enough that if the auto-feedback filters are very narrow, they will no longer be acceptable. A wider filter will do a better job of accomodating such movements. 1/3 octave is just about right. Inpractace, if a 1/3 octave eq won't work welll because of filter width, a feedback destroyer won't either.

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I promised one more review...this will be my last "resurrection" of this thread.

 

 

Last night, we had our third-Saturday-of-every-month stage show in a revamped theater, which has been added to the "registry of historic sites" or whatnot. They completely reconditioned an old movie theater and perform plays, concerts, etc. (no movie screen). Very cool, very old building, very good acoustics. We have played about 20 shows on this same stage, so I knew what to expect going in.

 

Cranked the four monitors (across the front) and not one squeal all night long. Last night's show included a violin duet (miked overhead) and a duo on acoustic guitar and banjo (miked in front and each with a vocal mic as well), in addition to the regular four live mics along the front, and still not one single squeal all night. The monitors were louder than I have ever heard them get, and they stayed there with no complaints and no feedback. Not one performer had any complaints. Even my deaf guitarist could hear everything.

 

Again, I am a happy camper. :D

 

Okay, no more bringing this thread back, I promise.

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