Band changeover time Rant

[Dogoth]

I work in a theatre (cap around 750 people) that does a lot of mid level national act (usualy on their way up or on their way down). We also occasionaly do higher level acts (sometimes in our theatre and sometimes in a larger convention room (cap around 2500 people).

 

I'm old school in my thinking that the show and everything about it should be always looked at from the audience's perspective.

 

If we have multiple names on the marqui we make every effort possible to make the changeover as quick and seamless as possible I.E. shareing of equipment, rolling risers, multiple pre-labeled snakes or whatever it takes. My personal feeling is that a change shouldn't take more than 2 minutes (I'm not talking about festival or fair sound where the groups show up 1/2 hour before downbeat (this is a higher ticket priced show with a full sound check for each group)).

 

Lately we've been involved with a three different higher dollar groups who came with their own opening acts. Under protests from the stage manager we were told that the changeover would take 15-30 minutes. Two of the openers were duo's and one was a single. Sure enough changeover took far more time than was needed (how long does it take to strike a couple of DI's, a couple of mics and push a couple of buttons on your board? (either mute groups or scene presets)). The extra time was taken saying check-check through each mic and testing each instrument before the band comes on (isn't this what sound check is for?).

 

As this is going on (to the crowd's and the stage manager's dismay) I found myself laughing at the situation. I'm sure it was either - incompetance - ego - justifying of position - covering of rear side - just plain unprofesionalism - or probably some mix of the above (all of which i see as funny while in action)

 

Is this some kind of trend? Is it now "in vogue" to make the audience suffer through an un-needed full volume line check before they are graced with the presence of the royal performers and their equaly self important entorage?

 

We should all remember that it is the audience who gives us a job and that they should be treated like the most important people in the room (Old School?).

[stmatt]

I agree. Never a check with the house open. S/C before doors, scratch test through the cans at changover to double check patches, etc. What you describe would not fly in a very similiar venue I work.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

We should all remember that it is the audience who gives us a job and that they should be treated like the most important people in the room (Old School?).

 

No, it's not old school. It's a matter of respect, professionalism, and understanding which side the bread is buttered on.

 

Being punctual is not about YOU, it's about others.

 

Spelling and grammar is not about the author, it's about respecting the reader.

 

Pissing in a toilet rather than on the side of somebody

[Mogwix]

That's incredibly odd, sir. I've never seen anyone sound check with the house open.

[Danny (NS::U)]

It could be a symptom of what I've been seeing lately (down at the low levels ). There seems to be a lack of recognition of what it takes to really do any kind of SR in a semi-serious (or beyond) type of way. People seem to think that a whole bunch of gear rolls in, gets set up, and is all ready to rock in an hour or two. (I recently had a real genius figure that a rig for an important event could show up at the door with only 2 hours before the tech walkthrough. No kidding. Not a big rig at all - but handling setup and all the unforseen issues was more like 4-6 hours, if I recall.)

 

The way this might directly connect to the thread is that nobody wants to show up early to anything and actually do the work involved with putting on a show. They figure that everything can be done at the last possible moment, probably because everything will work perfectly (yeah, sure) and there won't be any major sonic issues to sort out.

 

I also think that there aren't many people out there who "get" show aesthetics much any more. Maybe everybody is just used to 5 bands "going festival style" at the local club, and that's what they expect.

[BigMac5]

My son

[ATOMICDOG1]

In all honesty, two minutes is not cool. 10 is more realistic. Fast as possible is great until the band kicks in and someone cross patched the vocals or the kick drum isn't working because they weren't being careful they were being quick. I'd rather error on the side of caution and take an extra five minutes and not give the crowd a less than spectacular start to the set.

 

The full volume sound check with an open house was really stupid though, I agree.

[agedhorse]

I have seen some of this Danny, and while 2 minute set changes for national acts may be optimistic (and in a big venue folks need some time vor a visit to the rest room and get a drink/snack at the venue concessions areas) but starting on time and opening doors on time are a BIG pet peeve of mine. Leaving an audience outside waiting increases the liklihood for fights, weather issues etc. It's plain disrespectful. Our venue fines the promotor $50 for every 15 minutes the doors open late, and $50 every 15 minutes the show starts late. We started this policy 15 years ago and it completely eliminated a problem that plagued about 80% of the shows coming through. The audience really does appreciate it. We are not alone with this type of policy.

[Mogwix]

 

Our venue fines the promotor $50 for every 15 minutes the doors open late, and $50 every 15 minutes the show starts late. We started this policy 15 years ago and it completely eliminated a problem that plagued about 80% of the shows coming through. The audience really does appreciate it. We are not alone with this type of policy.

 

That is an awesome policy! I strive to get the show running on time and unless something beyond my control happens (like say, the promoter booking the venue's start time right at the time the show is to start, so we can't even get into the venue to set up until the show's already to start... *sigh*) I've never been late. What tends to happen though is that the promoter will put the show back a half hour and sometimes even an hour to "wait for more people to show up".

 

Ah well.

[aw_dee_o]

That is a GREAT idea Agedhorse, regardless of the size of the venue or popularity of the bands playing. They are there to do a show and being compensated for their punctuality and skills. Nobody else would expect to show up for work 20 minutes to an hour late and expect to get paid their full wage, would they? One employee who was holding up other employees from doing their job probably wouldn't be surprised if they were reprimanded by the boss either.

 

Why do musicians think that they can break all the rules that apply to business and get away with it? Because we let them.... Sean

 

[Singin' Dave]

 

No, it's not old school. It's a matter of respect, professionalism, and understanding which side the bread is buttered on.   Being punctual is not about YOU, it's about others.   Spelling and grammar is not about the author, it's about respecting the reader.   Pissing in a toilet rather than on the side of somebody

[agedhorse]

The policy works and in spite of the whining, works pretty well fro everyone. Some of the bands and promoters end up really liking it a lot because it keeps the show moving right along.

 

It's the cultural shows we do that always seem to struggle withthe policy and they are typically the ones who just blow it off then get dinged out oftheir security deposit. We have taken as much as $800 from a promoter for lat doors and start. (way late of course).

[Cyber_Chyld]

Well, there's a few points raised here....

 

Firstly, as a musician and a regular FOH engineer, I could never, nor would I ever be happy with two minutes to change over between bands.

If everyone is on the ball maybe fifteen minutes yes. Surely it's worth taking the time to make sure everything is patched properly, and everyone is happy? It makes for a much better performance when the band can run from start to finish without any tech issues!

Again though, line checking through FOH is rarely a nice idea. Occasionally if we have to run it 'festival style' I will do, but it creates a much nicer aesthetic when everything goes smoothly!

 

Secondly, I totally agree about the problem with getting doors open on time.

I'm the FOH at a club in London, and I often have to stage manage as well.

There are certain promoters who you can guarantee will make a mess of things, time and again.

It slows me down as FOH when I have to spend half an hour trying to organise the bands, finding out a drumkit hasn't arrived etc.

I always arrive an hour before the bands do to ensure the PA system is working properly in case of any faluts etc.

 

Yeah, live production has issues, and its almost always down to a lack of communication!

[W. M. Hellinger]

+1,000! You could place this post into about half the threads on HC and it would be relevant

Thanks.

 

When I'm on-stage, or behind the board, or on stage changing over bands... it's not about ME but rather, it's about the folks paying the bill. I serve at their pleasure.

[bassred]

 

The policy works and in spite of the whining, works pretty well fro everyone. Some of the bands and promoters end up really liking it a lot because it keeps the show moving right along. It's the cultural shows we do that always seem to struggle withthe policy and they are typically the ones who just blow it off then get dinged out oftheir security deposit. We have taken as much as $800 from a promoter for lat doors and start. (way late of course).

 

 

The last event I did was in the 'mexican village' area of the event, the bands literally show up 10 mins before go time and run onto the stage and try to get everything miked and checked, thn they procede to take cell phone calls during songs (no lie every single band hadat least one member who stopped playing and took a call onstage)

 

I'd say ten minutes is on the tight side, 15-20 would be nicer, as long as the PA is already to rock a line check can work if absolutely necessary.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

then they procede to take cell phone calls during songs (no lie every single band hadat least one member who stopped playing and took a call onstage)

 

And... they got paid how much to stand on the stage and yak on their cell phones?

 

Just curious.

[Dogoth]

Woah I find this interesting that the majority of folks here would need more time to change over bands. Probably my original post wasn't clear.

 

I agree that if you're making a complete backline and stage set change that 2 minutes is unrealistic (A minimum of 10 - 15 minutes is a much closer to reality). The shows that I originaly posted about were not about reseting anything but rather striking just a few mics and DI's (remember they were single and duo opening acts). Since there was a complete sound check earlier and none of the main acts equipment was distrubed, there was no need to fiddle and fuss and recheck everything. The procedure should be, walk onstage and strike what's needed and maybe place 1 or 2 front line mic stands (usualy a quick scratch test is sufficient for verification) and on comes the band.....5 minutes tops.

 

In this case the audience would see pretty close to a seemless transition from one act to the next (sort of like Vaudville where as one act is on the next is setting up (continuous entertainment)). I suppose my approach is more about presenting people a "complete show" as compared to a musical event and then another musical event.

 

The idea of an intermission is a good one (for a particularly long show) as long as it's presented as such (something like "Thanks a lot folks we'll be back in 20 minutes with XYZ"), but to make people wait with no idea of whats coming next and with line checking being louder than the house music looks to me to be unprofessional.

 

I guess I'm just saying that load in and sound check is the time to work out the logistics of the show and that the audience shouldn't be subjected to anything that interupts the flow of the show that isn't absloutley necessary.

[agedhorse]

An intermission, where there are bathrooms available and an open bar is different. It really depends on the hows and whys.

[MDLMUSIC]

Many musicians, for some reason, seem to think that because they have talent that people are willing to pay for to see and hear, that they have a special dispensation from being courteous to their audiences.

 

I once worked with a drummer (and I stress the word "once") who showed up 15 minutes before the gig was scheduled to start, took his time setting up his drums, and then proceeded to tune his drums for the next 15 minutes while the rest of the band members stood on stage looking like a bunch of bored mannequins. Then when he finally started playing, he was mediocre at best.

 

I think the whole thing started with the rock star excesses, like the thrashed hotel rooms, or refusing to perform because there were red M&M's in the bowl. So now anybody who can strum a guitar or whack on a drum thinks they're in the same league as the rock stars.