Members nin4269 Posted June 11, 2007 Members Share Posted June 11, 2007 I'm going to leave this wide open. I want to hear recommendations from all perspectives. I work for a company now that does sales and rental. We don't do a lot of larger sound gigs, even though we have a very decent Yorkville TX rig (currently 6 subs, 6 tops but should be upgraded to 8 & 8 before long). But we only have a GL2200-32 console for a mixer. We also have a huge 40 channel TAC Scorpion monitor console... I think it was given to the owner when he was a roadie for Bonnie Rait. I don't know, he won't say I'm just putting together the pieces... anyway. I'm supposed to make a recommendation and I wanted to confer with my friends here. I'm considering Digital, nice analog (like Midas), cheap... whatever. The thing is we don't really have the demand now, but we'd like to build it... so I think this decision will have a factor in proving our capability. But value is value, so what's worth the number of dimes I have to spend to get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Squier Fat Telecaster Posted June 11, 2007 Members Share Posted June 11, 2007 Analog: Midas Verona+Sienna combo for FOH and MONS Digital: Yamaha M7CL48's for FOH and MONS Affordable: A&H GL3800 FOH, GL2800M MONS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 11, 2007 Members Share Posted June 11, 2007 Define your client's needs first, Personally I would look for something like a good used PM-3500/3500M, PM-4k, as those are still standards until you get a better idea where this is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted June 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2007 I think used is a good idea. Dusting off the TAC and testing it gave me the idea. I wanted to know what this thing was worth (hell, what it was) and I saw some of the FOH versions for sale in the process. In the 3 - 5K range so of course I entertained the idea... for a bit. It's just such a big console, and I don't know that it would impress the pants off of any potential clients. So I don't think a used TAC Scorpion to match our monitor console is such a good idea. But a nice used Yamaha, Soundcraft or even Midas board would be delightfully considered. I got a strong recommendation for the Soundcraft MH2 (from someone who could sell one to me of course). I'm new to large format consoles, can you tell me in small words Nate can understand why I need a VCA console so bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 11, 2007 Members Share Posted June 11, 2007 Man, if you are asking these questions, you are junming into an alligator pit full of hungry gators. You need to know who you need to impress first. If you need to impress yourself, then do so, but if you need to make money, you would be best to back away from the pit. It's shark infested waters out there and you will be the new chum. How do you make a million dollars in the sound business? Start with two million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pro1-54 Posted June 11, 2007 Members Share Posted June 11, 2007 How do you make a million dollars in the sound business? Start with two million. A company not too far from me started with a 1 milion dollar investment and was bankrupt in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 11, 2007 Members Share Posted June 11, 2007 A company not too far from me started with a 1 milion dollar investment and was bankrupt in 3 years. Obviously they should have started out with 2 million! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 12, 2007 Members Share Posted June 12, 2007 is the GL2200 not doing the job? Often I find myself wanting more than needing and I'll look back at the times I would have used the thing(s) I wanted and it may have been a few times per year. I do it another way now: get the bigger dollar gig, then invest some into gear..the gig pays for the gear but never will I eat up an entire gig's paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted June 12, 2007 Members Share Posted June 12, 2007 ...we have a very decent Yorkville TX rig (currently 6 subs, 6 tops but should be upgraded to 8 & 8 before long). How are those TX boxes, by the way? I'm looking at a TX rig myself. Those TX8 boxes look nice but at 215 lbs? No thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted June 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 They sound beautiful, and with caster plates on the bottom I don't deal with the weight much. They have very nice flyware. Very rugged boxes. Stacking them on the TX9s is a challenge, but with enough guys or the right equipment, not a big deal. They are a good value in my estimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Erik-RMCAudio Posted June 14, 2007 Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 "How do you make a million dollars in the sound business? Start with two million." I love that one. Now since there is chum in the water......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 14, 2007 Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 I am seeing some folks who have been struggling for the past few years starting to drop like flys. There should be a lot of good used inventory coming available over the next year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted June 14, 2007 Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 As the others have said, the market for sound can be very low margin and highly competitive. Do you know what you competition carries right now? Do you need to turn a profit, or does it meerly need to carry itself. How high up the food chain are you aiming? What does the rest of the rig look like? There is no point in buying a PM5K, Series 5, Heritage 3K, PM5D if you have an outboard rack full of Bheringer, DOD, ROSS, etc. Most local/regional acts/festivals can be done with a basic 8 buss board (Soundcraft GB8, Midas Verona, etc), but that dosen't mean that the band's engineer is going to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 14, 2007 Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 It's a fine line between acceptable on a budget and unacceptable. It all depends on the market, and the act's attitude. I have a Yamaha M-2000 (PM style frame like the PM3500 but with the "M" instead of the "PM" for some reason they can't explain. It's a familiar style for most touring guys, doesn't have the bells and whistles but is solid, reliable and quiet. Same basic circuitry as the bigger brothers. Most guys can be talked into this when they see that everything else is pretty meat and potatoes solid gear too. What they don't like is being hit with a bunch of wierd stuff, a slew of bottom feeder gear and even more importantly slopply maintained and packaged systems. Presentation has a lot to do with this. So, for the mid level stuff a middle of the line console may be just fine, but I wouldn't wantto try doing larger A circuit stuff with that console. A move up to the 3500 is then a better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 14, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 Nate, you haven't mentioned any reasons for buying a different console. Has your company been turned down for business because of the present inventory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted June 14, 2007 Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 Nate, you haven't mentioned any reasons for buying a different console. Has your company been turned down for business because of the present inventory? If the OP intends on moving into the market, a larger FOH console would be a good idea IMHO. I own a GL2000-32, and we use it when we are the only engineers, and meeting riders is not an issue. I mention this because our larger FOH console is a Soundcraft GB8-48. If you know both boards, then you know that they both have the same EQ setup, and since we only run 4 effects units we only need 4 auxes to send to them. Both boards have stereo return channels, though the GB does have 4 instead of the GL's 2. While the GB is an 8 buss board, having only 4 busses is not a big deal for almost any act. What I am trying to say is that there is very little difference between the 2 from a functionality point of view. However...... As recently as last Sunday, we had a call to provide Racks, Stacks and FOH for a band (they carried a monitor rig), and the engineer asked what we had. We told him about the GL and the GB....he wanted the GB. The band had 25 inputs. I think, as agedhorse mentioned, it comes down to presentation. GL or GB: http://members.cox.net/absound/GB8_FOH.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted June 14, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 Well, it was really pie in the sky talk before... going to be spending money on something and being the guy I am, I couldn't help but think we should take it up to another level all together. Having said that, I just sat down at my desk, and we were faxed a technical rider (stage, lights & sound) of a national country artist to make a bid on. We can meet all the other aspects (depending on a few factors) except sound. So this could be an opportunity for us to grow the company and have more gear, to meet larger scale events... or I just call someone else and say "Here, this is for you, we can't do it." So the rider calls for a 48ch PM4000 or XL-4 and I'm thinking "crap! Way out of our league..." But I know the other companies who got the rider to make a bid are also light and stage heavy. Someone has to do the job, so someone needs to step up and make the investment. Maybe we're not that someone... but a year ago, I was struggling to find sound work and now I'm working this day job and doing sound every T, F & S night. So I'm willing to put in the effort, and learn what needs to be learned. I mean, you have to start somewhere and this is a pretty good somewhere. What do you think? Am I crazy? Should I go get my realtor's license? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 What else are you light on in the sound department? That may be a deciding factor in how MUCH upgrading you will have to do to make the package work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aldea Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 Sell all your eq's, compressors and effects and get 2 yamaha M7CL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members belayslave Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 I'm currently on tour with a Soundcraft GB8 40ch. has been reliable and solid for two months so far. have another two months ahead of us. It's not top of the line, but it's a good step into a larger console for a reasonable price. Last night we did a promo gig at a venue in Sydney, FOH was a Yamaha PM3000, desperately in need of a service, but still one of those classics which you can't go past. MONS was a Souncraft 8000. Not the cleanest (noise wise) desk about, but all the features you need and easy to operate. Sounds like you need a bigger console without the price tag, within all the reliability etc that is required for regular use. Go Soundcraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Squier Fat Telecaster Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 APB Dynasonics!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted June 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 What else are you light on in the sound department? That may be a deciding factor in how MUCH upgrading you will have to do to make the package work. Well that answer depends on the "What level are we trying get" question, which I haven't answered. The mains I mentioned are a pretty good indication of where we are. We have a rack of outboard effects, but not several racks. We have a monitor rig w/ 6 wedges that can do 6 mixes, but they're not bi-amped. We don't have a split snake (which has come up a couple of times and leads us to feeling we need one). This system would kill at most clubs and venues around town. We'd even do well for local street festivals. It's just festivals are rare, and clubs don't want to pay what the system is worth (or anything, they just leave it up to the bands, and you know what they usually know about sound). We are really no where close to doing this country gig, unless those TX speakers are way more badass than I realize. So I feel a mighty need to upgrade. But it could be irrational. However, when the owner said "we should look for a new FOH board" I felt validated. More than likely he just caught the bug I was carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted June 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 APB Dynasonics!!!!!!!!!! I'm hearing that... all the reviews suggest they're very nice boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 I believe you said you guys were primarily a staging co., correct? How much business do you see in that realm? What kind of rigs are running those events? What I am trying to get is a feel for what your market can support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted June 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 Seems like it goes out a lot. Little corporate events, medium size stage for concerts, big college & fund raiser stuff... we're doing a time capsule event now that has a car proudly displayed on one of our stages, and have an event coming up that will use all of our panels (we had to buy 40 more for a total of about 300 4x4 panels). It keeps us going pretty well... did that answer your questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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