Members ja_remi40 Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 I'm somewhat of noob when it comes to setting up a system for a concert or whatever and I was wondering how typically set-up goes through starting from when all the equipment is in the trailer.. like what do u set-up first, do you bring out the speakers/subs first? i'm looking for a pretty in-depth description of how you set-up your rig and steps you take to ensure a well organized workspace. on top i have a couple of questions..like i know that the poweramps are usually located right by the stage but do you use the returns from the snake to send the signal from the mixer straight to the poweramps or is there signal loss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary in NJ Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 1. Set-up all instruments. Arrange the stage2. Set-up FOH & monitor speakers3. Set-up mixer and racks (don't cable yet)4. Set-up mics, vocal and instrument5. Run all cables and secure with gaffers tape6. Bring-up power; instruments, then mixer & effects, PA amps last (keep the volume pots down)6. Set gain (unamped) for each mic independently7. Bring-up and level the monitor mix. Confirm through a song8. Bring-up FOH speakers after the band is pleased with monitor mix9. Open beer10. Drink beer I'm not sure I understand your last question. Yes, you will be running snakes from the stage to the mixing board and then from the board to the power rack(s). If you are using quality cable, signal loss should not be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 line level returns to the stage do not experience significant signal loss over short distances. My snakes are 225 feet long, and I have not noticed a difference between them and my 100' snakes. As for load in sequence, mine goes like this (I am strictly sound and light): 1)Unload trailer, put items in their rough area.2)Stack FOH cabinets, arrange racks and consoles.3)Hook up power and setup distro (or run power cables if we are just plugging in). Check power with meter.4)uncover racks and consoles5)Arrange monitors and run speaker cables6)Hook up consoles/racks (I use EDAC multipins, so this is only a few connections for me)7)hook up CD player, talkback mic and Clear Com to monitor station.8)Turn on all gear except for amps.9)Fire up CD player and check consoles, EQ, Effects (FOH and Mon).10)Turn on amps and test FOH and Mon.11)If we are doing a festival (our usual work), setup mic plot, and do a line check. Make sure vocal mics are decently loud in their mixes. A lot of this varies slightly, but you get the basic idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary in NJ Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 I would like to add one more thing, not about set-up but tear-down. At the end of the night I always have a lot of friends that want to help me. They obviously see how much work is involved and I'm sure they think they are doing me a favor. I always apologize first, and then ask that they DO NOT help me. I need to know that everything is unplugged correctly, wrapped correctly and put away so it wont get damaged in transport. For that reason I only allow the band members to carry anything that can be damaged. I've seen too many well intentioned people unplug cables from the cable, wrap cables in a random fashion and put things in places that I'm not going to find them. And there is nothing worse than unloading the equipment the next day only to find a missing knob from an amp, or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 1. Move everything in but keep stuff off the stage.2. Set subs and tops.3. Start with drums and move onto guitar amps4. As drums and amps are getting set move stage racks into place5. Set up FOH racks - run snake6. Wire stage end of snake and run speaker cables - Do not power up.7. Once stage is set wire up FOH - Do not power up.8. Whan all mics and racks are set start powering up - FOH board then FOH racks then stage racks (no amps) 9. Power up the amps. Keep board volume all the way down. 10. Play some music through the system to check for proper signal path while slowly turning up volume.11. Ring out the system - Monitors first12. Ring out FOH13. Adjust EQ and double check all mics and line ins. Dont move stuff onto the stage during load in unless you are sure that you can place it where it goes. Do not move stuff twice. DO NOT LET FRIENDS HELP. It might sound nice but missing important cables for the next show isn't fun. Gary in NJ is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 DO NOT LET FRIENDS HELP. It might sound nice but missing important cables for the next show isn't fun. Gary in NJ is correct. Yup. It's like cleaning the shop. I tell my employees: if you don't know were something goes, ask me, or just pile it on my bench and I'll put it away. I'd guesstimate that 90%+ of all of the damage my equipment has suffered over the past 20 some-odd years was at the hands of well meaning "helpers" or performers. A couple months ago I supplied the production for a local fundraiser (donation). There was a large crew of volunteer helpers supplied with the event. I asked them to PLEASE not do anything without my direct supervision. They were all full of energy and wanted to pitch in and help, but there was no-way I could keep all the idle hands busy. As sure as it rains in Seattle, everytime I turned my back, the hoard jumped into something else that looked like they could "help" with. The last straw was went I walked 20ft. from the stage to the truck, grabbed a small case and walked back inside (I was gone less than a minute), and here was one of the "helpers" cranking up one of the front lighting towers... and it wouldn't go up all the way... and he was backing up the crank winch, and ramming it again, and again, and again... till I stopped him and pointed out the reason it wouldn't go up all the way is because the Socopex cable was jammed in the works... but if he'd ram it a few more times, that should finish grinding the Socopex cable in-two, and then the crank tower would go all the way up (but of-course, the lights won't work). I was pretty pissed. He apologized profusely. I said: "That's ok, the arrangement I have with this event is that my services are donated, but the charity organization has agreed to reimburse me for any damages". He insisted that he/the charity organization would fix the damage or pay for a replacement. I explained it's not fixable cause I don't have any use for a 50ft. Socopex cable cut into a 15ft. and 35ft. lengths, and it can't just be taped back together 'cause that's not code compliant... and a new replacement is about $600. That really dropped their jaws... especially later when he explained to the rest of the charity board members that their "take" from that charity event almost pays for the replacement Socopex cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ja_remi40 Posted June 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 wow thanks alot! pretty much exactly what i was looking for, i just seemed to find that it was taking me longer than i thought to set-up my stuff so these routines u guys do makes it alot clearer...and what i meant about the snakes and losing signal was that the cables in a snake are alot smaller than if u were to use idependant cables..but then i guess that would be quite cluttered... so what do you use for the snake? just 4 xlr returns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 The cables in snakes are balanced. That is why they can travel long distances without much signal loss. Very expensive to do that with separate cables. Most returns are 1/4", but it depends on the snake. What is your whole setup? How many channels to FOH? How many returns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ja_remi40 Posted June 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 The cables in snakes are balanced. That is why they can travel long distances without much signal loss. Very expensive to do that with separate cables. Most returns are 1/4", but it depends on the snake. What is your whole setup? How many channels to FOH? How many returns? well you see, I'm 18 and just starting to build my rig but as of now i have an allen & heath gl2400 so ill have 24 channels to FOH, but the thing is my crown amp only has xlr inputs i wanted to get educated so ill know exactly what im going to need and the best way to set it up...as for speakers; next year im planning on getting some jbl mrx's...a combination of 2 dual 15 mains, 4 12' mons, and dual 18 subs from what i've gathered it would be a descent investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walkerci Posted June 16, 2007 Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 ...from what i've gathered it would be a decent investment That is an understatement. When you add in spares for key pieces and cases, you getting close to new car territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJ Swydez Posted June 16, 2007 Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 well you see, I'm 18 and just starting to build my rig but as of now i have an allen & heath gl2400 so ill have 24 channels to FOH, but the thing is my crown amp only has xlr inputs For all your snake and cabling needs, check out Mark's inventory @ www.audiopile.net i wanted to get educated so ill know exactly what im going to need and the best way to set it up...as for speakers; next year im planning on getting some jbl mrx's...a combination of 2 dual 15 mains, 4 12' mons, and dual 18 subs from what i've gathered it would be a descent investment If you are planning to get the Dual 18" subs, skip the dual 15" tops because they will just "mud up" your sound... you would be much better off with a set of single 12" or 15" speakers pole-mounted above those subs... probably 12" since you're in a band and need clear vocals... Just some suggestions... Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ja_remi40 Posted June 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 For all your snake and cabling needs, check out Mark's inventory @ www.audiopile.net If you are planning to get the Dual 18" subs, skip the dual 15" tops because they will just "mud up" your sound... you would be much better off with a set of single 12" or 15" speakers pole-mounted above those subs... probably 12" since your in a band and need clear vocals... Just some suggestions... Good Luck! and once again i learn something new that is very helpful thanks alot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted June 16, 2007 Totally in agreement about not movning things until you know where they go, and that less help is more help. Last year I played an outdoor party with my band, and the guys all wanted to help. It was hot as hell, and they all saw me sweatin' and started moving things around and plugging them in. Within a half hour I could see that it was going to take me three times longer to get the rig, which is really simple, up and running. I had no idea what was plugged in, what wasn't, which cables had been used and which were still available. It was a mess. Load-out was the same problem...I asked that nobody coil cables, but of course everyone wanted to pitch in, so the next week I had to spend a couple hours taking the twist out of every cable that had been wound up tighter than a transformer primary. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 17, 2007 Members Share Posted June 17, 2007 Your Crown amp only has XLR inputs... that's a good thing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesmann Posted June 17, 2007 Members Share Posted June 17, 2007 I would like to add one more thing, not about set-up but tear-down.At the end of the night I always have a lot of friends that want to help me. They obviously see how much work is involved and I'm sure they think they are doing me a favor. I always apologize first, and then ask that they DO NOT help me. I need to know that everything is unplugged correctly, wrapped correctly and put away so it wont get damaged in transport. For that reason I only allow the band members to carry anything that can be damaged. I've seen too many well intentioned people unplug cables from the cable, wrap cables in a random fashion and put things in places that I'm not going to find them. And there is nothing worse than unloading the equipment the next day only to find a missing knob from an amp, or worse. been there! and so true. This happens at most gigs and i dont mean to tic anybody off but i try to explain why and just say thank you anyway i can handle it on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 This is how we do it. 1. Take everything out of the trailer, and as we go, everything is located in it's spot. We really try not to move things twice. This includes everything except the drums as the drummer loads his own equipment himself. (His choice). This is a pair of double 18's, a pair of double 15's with 4" horns. 2. After the equipment is in, I work on FOH, while my partner works on the stage equipment. 3. First thing I do is open cases, pull the snake to the stage from the FOH rack, the run the power cables to the amp rack. Then subsnake to the amp rack from the snake returns. The snake is always connected to the FOH rack and coiled in the rack, so it's a matter of just bringing the head to the stage. http://my.opera.com/Sound4U/albums/showpic.dml?album=240611&picture=3754636 4. After the FOH is setup, I run the monitor cables to the monitor speakers. 5. By this time, the backline is setup and the mic cables are run. 6. At this point, I turn on the FOH rack, check the driverack for the correct program, and start the mp3 player. (volume down, of course) 7. Chuck now turns on the amps for FOH. The volume is turned up on the tracks channels and the speakers are listened to to make sure they are all working. 8. Chuck now turns on the monitor amps and checks each vocal mic for monitor levels while I check levels on FOH. Then the keyboard linecheck. 9. Once the band arrives 10 minutes before showtime , the guitar, drums, and bass are given a line check. (I wish they wouldn't do that.) Then showtime. I never have anyone EVER help me, except for Chuck. Only he doesn't help with cable wrapping, as he doesn't wrap over under as well as I do. Oh, also, nothing is ever set any closer than one foot from a wall. This allows room for cables and troubleshooting, if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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