Members holidayincambod Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 What exactly does a group out do? Is it just another out where that all the signal goes into, like the ST out, except it's a seperate volume control or what? http://www.music123.com/Yamaha-MG16-4-16-Input-4-Bus-Mixer-630051-i1153357.Music123 I'm speaking more specifically about this mixer. I can't see anywhere that says only a certain signal will go to the Group Out. Thanks, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 8, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 8, 2007 What exactly does a group out do? Is it just another out where that all the signal goes into, like the ST out, except it's a seperate volume control or what?http://www.music123.com/Yamaha-MG16-4-16-Input-4-Bus-Mixer-630051-i1153357.Music123I'm speaking more specifically about this mixer. I can't see anywhere that says only a certain signal will go to the Group Out.Thanks, Chris. Yes, that's pretty much it...on this mixer any channel you select with the 1-2 group button will have signal sent to the group fader and then the two group outputs. It allows you to control several faders by using just the group fader, for example, for several backing vocalists or a drumkit. In my opinion, groups are not as useful on smaller mixers, and the money would be better spent for more auxiliary sends for monitors and/or effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Balladeer Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Yes, a group is a sub-mix of seleted channels. In the Live environment, a group can be used to adjust the level on, say, all mics on the drum kit or all choir mics, from a single fader. You would then route the group back to the main mix. In the studio, groups can be used to assign individual channel inputs to each recording track, via the group outputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Group outputs can also be used as a seperate mix for front fills, delay fills or even monitor side fills. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 8, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 8, 2007 Group outputs can also be used as a seperate mix for front fills, delay fills or even monitor side fills.Boomerweps A matrix is even better for this, but that's a whole 'nother can 'o beans...and you won't find matrices on mixers under about $2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 We'd use the groups on the MIdas Venice boards for different zones, or to select sources to go to an outboard matrix mixer. I've used them as an additional output to take the main mix out to an internet webcast.... I've also used them to set groups to record (back n the day when 4 tracks was all that was acvailable to me...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members holidayincambod Posted October 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 Group outputs can also be used as a seperate mix for front fills, delay fills or even monitor side fills.Boomerweps groovy what do you mean by delay fills/front fills. basicly just monitors right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted October 11, 2007 Members Share Posted October 11, 2007 Front fills are the speakers that cover the "front" right there at the stage, generally. This is necessary when the main speakers are too far apart or too high to evenly cover the front several rows of seats. Delay fills are the stacks that are used in a large space, usually outside, that help the coverage towards the back. The signal is delayed some amount of time for the main speaker's sound to get to that point in space, then the delay fills (towers) fill in the back. You see these on larger outdoor shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members holidayincambod Posted October 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2007 Brilliant. Thanks alot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted October 12, 2007 Members Share Posted October 12, 2007 Some of the A&H MixWizard boards have matrix routing and they're under $1500 oops did I just prove Craigv wrong...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bud B Posted October 13, 2007 Members Share Posted October 13, 2007 Hi, What I use the Groups for is mainly the Drum Kit, Vocals, and Backline.Once I get the Drum Kit mixed as perfectly as I can and like, I can then lower or raise the entire Kit in the mix with one Fader.This also is applicable for the Vocals and Backline...though I can still go to individual channel Faders if needed.The Vocals Group comes in handy in that, if there is feedback I can quickly kill it and then look for the offending channel afterwards.I don't pull down the entire fader just a bit to stop the feedback, though honestly I never get feedback...just a mixer security blanket if you will.I mix from the stage so if in the middle of a song I can walk over and give a fader a quick nudge if needed!That's my 2c Later, Bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 13, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Some of the A&H MixWizard boards have matrix routing and they're under $1500 oops did I just prove Craigv wrong...? Yup:D Only one of the Mixwizards, the 14:4:2, has a 7x2. Barely qualifies as a matrix, but yes, it's got one, and sells for about $1,350. It's a 12-channel board with 4 groups...one of the examples that makes me wonder about including groups on small mixers. But there are needs in special circumstances, and this is a good board for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gregidon Posted October 13, 2007 Members Share Posted October 13, 2007 Two things:1) What exactly is a matrix. I hear it compared to a group, but i'd like to know what it is. 2) I have heard from older sound guys that often cheaper signal routing circuitry is used in the buses of less expensive boards and it is therefore better to avoid using them... i.e. less headroom etc. Would you weigh in on this? Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 13, 2007 Members Share Posted October 13, 2007 A matrix is nothing more than a sub-mix and the inputs are generally the groups plus L, C (or mono), R and maybe an additional aux input. There may be anywhere from 2 - 8 of these submixes that are arranged in what is functionally a matrix. Good designs use appropriate circuitry. One area of poor design that would affect the performance of any console is the mix bus, in both noise and dynamic range. Generally the more expensive consoles use a better design (with or withour better parts) and pay more attention to mechanical and shielding issues. Really large frames may even use balanced (differential) summing busses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gregidon Posted October 13, 2007 Members Share Posted October 13, 2007 A matrix is nothing more than a sub-mix and the inputs are generally the groups plus L, C (or mono), R and maybe an additional aux input. There may be anywhere from 2 - 8 of these submixes that are arranged in what is functionally a matrix.Good designs use appropriate circuitry. One area of poor design that would affect the performance of any console is the mix bus, in both noise and dynamic range. Generally the more expensive consoles use a better design (with or withour better parts) and pay more attention to mechanical and shielding issues. Really large frames may even use balanced (differential) summing busses. I agree with that. My buddy's point was that in lower quality quality (not crappy mind you) mixers, generally the main bus is a better quality circuit than the group buses (headroom issues). Therefore, for best sound you should avoid routing through the group buses buses. I was just curious about everyone's experience with this. In general, in lower end boards, are the group buses lower quality than the main bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 14, 2007 Members Share Posted October 14, 2007 I agree with that. My buddy's point was that in lower quality quality (not crappy mind you) mixers, generally the main bus is a better quality circuit than the group buses (headroom issues). Therefore, for best sound you should avoid routing through the group buses buses. I was just curious about everyone's experience with this. In general, in lower end boards, are the group buses lower quality than the main bus? No, generally the circuitry is identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gregidon Posted October 14, 2007 Members Share Posted October 14, 2007 No, generally the circuitry is identical. Good to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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