Members sonofrust Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Hey guys - I've been trying to use vocal effects on stage for a year and every time I run into massive feedback issues so I've had to go completely "clean", which doesn't match my sound at all. Here's the deal: I'm in an electronic band that uses Ableton and soft-synths for EVERYTHING, including the live show. I need to create an effect that sounds similar to the one I use in our song "The Highest Cost" for the vocal lead (you can listen to it here: http://www.myspace.com/sonofrust. It's basically bandpassed filtered, highly compressed, and slightly distorted. So, I know that any effect that boosts a signal live is going to cause feedback problems, so does ANYBODY know how to use the ableton compressor or ANY kind of distorted bandpassed sounding plug in or hardware thing to get a sound that's similar to that without having to worry about constant shrieking feedback on stage? I don't care if I have to buy something, but I'd prefer to do it in software if possible. If you're in a band and doing any kind of effect that's similar live, how do YOU do it?? I have purchased and use in-ear monitors on stage so the stage monitors are always off, but this doesn't seem to matter. We go directly from the Ableton Live effects chain (each microphone has it's own output) to a single quarter-inch phono out on our firewire box to an RCA pigtail to the house mixing board. Is there a better way I should be doing that? Your help would be GREATLY appreciated. Our live show sounds almost nothing like our albums because of this problem and I get the impression people are let down. Thanks!!- justinSon of Rust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 My guess is the highly compressed part of this is the cuplrit. You reduce gain before feedback by roughly the amount of gain reduction taken by compression if you use makeup gain. In other words, if your compressor is taking 3dB out of the input signal, and you add 3dB of makeup gain on the comp's output, you have to reduce the signal 3dB to maintain the same GBF. Are you running the effects in the monitors? If so, that's your problem...run the monitors dry, or switch to IEM's. If not, there aren't any great ways around this. You have to find other ways of increasing gain before feedback, or lower your overall performance volume. Mic and speaker placement, speakers with smoother response, better mic technique would all help, but to what degree really depends on how loud you need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 ..Are you running the effects in the monitors? If so, that's your problem...run the monitors dry, or switch to IEM's.. +1 Going to IEM's is likely your best option if you want the processed voice to be monitored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joel77 Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 ...... I have purchased and use in-ear monitors on stage so the stage monitors are always off, but this doesn't seem to matter. ....... Thanks!! - justin Son of Rust :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonofrust Posted October 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Yeah, we're using in-ears. Doesn't seem to help. I guess my question is not really what I am doing wrong (because I'm not doing anything right now) but how have other people gptten a distorted vocal sound? Are there any good stand alone VFX processors that make a sound like the effect in that song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 So the feed back is occuring out front? How are your speakers positioned relative to the microphones. To get a distorted vocal....you can either use a cheap radioshack megaphone or a green bullet harp mic plugged into a cheap guitar amp. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103827&cp=&parentPage=search http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-520DX-Green-Bullet-Mic?sku=270175&src=3WFRWXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 One way to get a distorted vocal is with a unit that is a soft clipping type device. You will want one without pre-distortion compression because that will make the problem you are having worse (but makes controllong the eveness of the distorted sound better) because of the increased gain that the compressor works with in order to compress. BUT, even with soft clipping, every dB you clip is a dB less gain before feedback, though it won't be as dramatic in practice as when using compression on top of the distortion. One thing that may improve things is to get closer to the mic and to sing loud. That will decrease the REQUIRED gain and thus the potential for feedback. If you are feeding back through the mains, that's one heck of a lot of gain IMO. Have you checked to see that no signal paths in software are constructed as recursive (feeding back into itself in phase)? This is a common fault when trying to get "creative" without understanding how stability criteria work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 mic>mic line transformer>guitar distortion box>mixer channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 mic>mic line transformer>guitar distortion box>mixer channel Doesn't solve the feedback problem, most likely will make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fishmanrod Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 I have used some fairly cheap behringer (ya, start crapping on me now) effects to achieve vocal distortion. Can't recall the model number right now, but most vox effect manufactureres have a am radio voice or distorted vocal setting. They always feed back. Part of it is gain structure, part of it is boost in certain bands to achieve the effect, part of it is compression. The issue was monitor and some front of house feedback. I run a 31 band eq on both monitor and house , and so I would ring out any feedback issues with the distored vocal effect on in sound check. Usually it would be one or two frequencies that caused the problem, and cutting them drastically did not affect the overall sound. I was also working with a vocalist that did not have a loud voice, was rather hearing impared so needed a loud monitor mix, and to be frank was just plain stupid with the mic. Situation from hell, right? I nearly always got the problem beat in sound check, although sometime it would take 30 minutes (yes, you read that right) to ring it out. I can't say enough about 31 band eq! He got better after a while because he hated feedback and also hated standing on stage for 30 minutes creating it! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 17, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hooo-boy, only FOH and it feeds back that badly. Yeah, you've got a lot of gain, or a LOT of effect, or both. Try leaving out compression, as your priority seems to be the distortion. The compression will limit the dynamic range, and if you can practice good mic technique and sing at a consistent enough level, you don't need compression. Add in your distortion effect a little at a time, lowering your volume....find the workable compromise of gain, feedback and effect that works in each venue...it'll be a little different in each place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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