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  • upgrade plan...over my head?

    So heres the deal. My home church is in need of a serious mixer functionality upgrade. The installed system is great for what they use is for, but recently there have been additional singers, they bought some video recording gear blah blah blah they really need more input channels and more aux sends. The board they have now is a 24 channel 6 aux (4 pre/post switch) thing that really needs to be upgraded. Soo

  • #2
    Aux send cable should be thin!!! 22 gauge shielded twisted pair is ideal. Belden 8451 is standard for single pair.

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    • #3
      I'd just pull a 24 pair cable (if it will fit in the conduit) and be set for sends and returns.
      <div class="signaturecontainer">Thanks,<br><br><br><br> Bill Cronheim<br><br>Back stage since 1973<br>For Sale: 1 - KV2 EX12 and 1 - KV2 EX2.2</div>

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      • #4
        This is def the early idea stage. I'll have to look up the size of the conduit and how long. I would guess it could be around 200ft from the board to the stage. What about the connections once I get the cable run? Putting the xlr and trs connectors on are something I have never done. I want to figure out that part of it properly. I'll practice it on my own before the actual job, but I really dont know at all what it takes.

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        • #5
          well you can do this right the first time , or spend approximate 3 times the amount doing it wrong.

          I am sure when you bought the mixer yoru useing now the people buying it though , how could we possibly ever use more the X channels..... and yet here you are.

          And same with amps speakers video and everything else.


          I would say that if you get a 2800 you will be looking to upgarde again in about 1-2 years.

          you need to step up to a full size console. 8+ sends, 32+ channels, and matrix, and sub grounds. Mute groups are also going to be needed VCA's optionial.

          the A&H 4000 series is what you need to look at. If you want to spend 3000$, on a mixer, .. then spend 8000$ upgrading it, and then 14,000 on your finial mixer. Please feel free, in fact contact some of then fine people on this board (audioeast), I am sure they will take your money, suport the economy.

          buy right , buy once.


          Also, on a side note, if you have a 4000$+ budget I have a PM3000 currently with 32 channels, 8 aux send, matrix, sub groups VCA and mute groups, FULL parametric EQ, dual power supplies. IT is also a 40 channel frame, so you can ADD up to 8 more channels later for about 250$ each.


          Kev.
          <div class="signaturecontainer">-token canadian<br />
          <br />
          Lest we forget: double-blind tests make audiophiles look twice as stupid. CRAIG V 2007<br />
          <br />
          Just for fun, what do you think would happen if you decided to take a nap in the fast lane of a freeway? agedhorse -2008<br />
          <br />
          Funny, I'll bet I have a good one sitting on my shelf. agedhorse -2008</div>

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          • #6
            I'm looking at the GL2800 sheet on the website and it shows 10 Aux, full matrix, and up to 56 channels.

            Is that not a full sized board? It may not be the right one or best for the OP but I don't understand your argument that he isn't looking at a "full size console".
            <div class="signaturecontainer"><img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/cool.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" class="inlineimg" /> <font size="4">samkokajko wins!</font> - MusicalSchizo <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/icon_lol.gif" border="0" alt="" title="lol" class="inlineimg" /></div>

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            • #7
              What about the connections once I get the cable run? Putting the xlr and trs connectors on are something I have never done. I want to figure out that part of it properly. I'll practice it on my own before the actual job, but I really dont know at all what it takes.


              This really depends on how you want to interface with your gear. You first need to define what you are going to do. You mentioned:

              1. Powered wedge sends
              2. Sends for wired IEM
              3. Stage boxes
              4. More stage input locations
              5. Console

              So, how many discrete sends will you need?
              How many and in which places do you need them? (You might need the same send to several places). Make a diagram.

              After defining what you really need, look at the equipment that fits your needs. That should be your budget for the project. There is nothing that you probably couldn't do by yourself, but it may be worth your time to check out what a professional would charge. Many times it will work out very cost effectively.

              Comment


              • #8
                What about upgrading to an LS9-32? Stock, it's got 32 inputs & 16 outputs w/ 2 expansion slots if you need more I/O.

                -Dan.
                <div class="signaturecontainer"><i>Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.</i></div>

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                • #9
                  I'm looking at the GL2800 sheet on the website and it shows 10 Aux, full matrix, and up to 56 channels.

                  Is that not a full sized board? It may not be the right one or best for the OP but I don't understand your argument that he isn't looking at a "full size console".


                  my bad, you are right, I thought it was the 2400 we were talking about.

                  on paper the 2800 seems good, never used one myself though.

                  I am familier with the gl4000 series though. that are basically 2800's with better EQ.

                  Kev.
                  <div class="signaturecontainer">-token canadian<br />
                  <br />
                  Lest we forget: double-blind tests make audiophiles look twice as stupid. CRAIG V 2007<br />
                  <br />
                  Just for fun, what do you think would happen if you decided to take a nap in the fast lane of a freeway? agedhorse -2008<br />
                  <br />
                  Funny, I'll bet I have a good one sitting on my shelf. agedhorse -2008</div>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This really depends on how you want to interface with your gear. You first need to define what you are going to do. You mentioned:

                    1. Powered wedge sends
                    2. Sends for wired IEM
                    3. Stage boxes
                    4. More stage input locations
                    5. Console

                    So, how many discrete sends will you need?
                    How many and in which places do you need them? (You might need the same send to several places). Make a diagram.

                    After defining what you really need, look at the equipment that fits your needs. That should be your budget for the project. There is nothing that you probably couldn't do by yourself, but it may be worth your time to check out what a professional would charge. Many times it will work out very cost effectively.


                    I totally agree. Getting the plan out for every detail is something that will be happening over time. My main concern was if taking a project on like this was a possibility. I still need to research the connections for the trs and xlrs and if anyone knows of any material to get me started there that would be cool. As far as going ahead with hiring someone to do this work, it may come to that. It really depends on cost of supplies+labor compared to how much we could do it for.

                    Kev, I really like the GL series. I'm looking at the 42 channel frame which will be far greater than what we really need. For the guys who do sound there I think it will help them out to stick with an analog console and learn the new features.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I work for a church that is very media heavy, for the service I use an LS9-32 and I wouldn't pick any other board if I had to buy one. If you set it up it can be very simple to operate and all the added features are awesome. If I was going to spend anywhere near that price mark I would go with that.

                      I have used the GL-3800 series and found it to be a fine console that I really couldn't find fault in, but at the price I'd rather buy once, cry once, read the manual once.
                      <div class="signaturecontainer"><img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/cool.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" class="inlineimg" /> <font size="4">samkokajko wins!</font> - MusicalSchizo <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/icon_lol.gif" border="0" alt="" title="lol" class="inlineimg" /></div>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When its all said in done a lot of this is not up to me. I dont know what the spending limit will be yet, but I'm pretty sure it wont be quite in the area of the LS9 when we add up everything.

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                        • #13
                          What you may want to do is price out having a company do an install of an analog board then price out a do-it-yourself install with the LS9-32. You may find they are about the same price.

                          Like the others, I would go for the digital board (LS9). All the onboard gear is worth the extra money and it offers many more advantages maybe not realized (recallable settings, lock out/user level features, easier to relocate or use for a restreat if need be, digital patching, custom layer, etc).

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                          • #14
                            When its all said in done a lot of this is not up to me. I dont know what the spending limit will be yet, but I'm pretty sure it wont be quite in the area of the LS9 when we add up everything.


                            that is the trick though "add up everything" ..
                            for example, 31 band eqs, .. 2 for FOH, and 4-6 for monitors. =4 units at 400$ each = 1600$

                            These are free inside the LS9

                            8 channels of gates and 8 channels of compression = 4 units @ 300$ each,
                            =1200$

                            These (and more, .. 32 of each rather then 8 and 8), free in ls9

                            Effects units, 3 of them at 300$ each = 900
                            or you get a ton of pretty good ones free in the ls9.


                            Also you get recallable scenes, you also get i/o carpd so you can move to inears later on, or expand fro recording, or anything else you can think of.
                            You also get full parameteric EQ and vaiable low pass filters.

                            teh above accounts for abotu 3000$ worth of stuff you will need to buy with a analog desk, you DON'T need with the ls9.

                            usablity is king those, and if useing a digi desk is jsut not going to work, then the conversation is moot.
                            <div class="signaturecontainer">-token canadian<br />
                            <br />
                            Lest we forget: double-blind tests make audiophiles look twice as stupid. CRAIG V 2007<br />
                            <br />
                            Just for fun, what do you think would happen if you decided to take a nap in the fast lane of a freeway? agedhorse -2008<br />
                            <br />
                            Funny, I'll bet I have a good one sitting on my shelf. agedhorse -2008</div>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We will need some of the e.q. but a lot of the stuff you mentioned is either gear we already have or wont need. I'm not counting out the LS9 or any other gear for that matter untill I get together with everyone involved, discuss what we want/need and budget it out with funds availiable. Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll come back sometime with what we have figured out and ask for more opinions.

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