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simple way to record a band live


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I just picked one of these up:

 

http://www.numark.com/idec

 

In addition to being a really cool way to interface your iPod for playback it will also allow you to record to it and playback video through the composite and s-video outputs. It also charges your iPod.

 

Playback is good. I haven't tried recording or video yet as I just unpacked it this morning. I'm hoping this will make recording something that happens all the time. As it is now I will either drag a computer out or take the eight sub groups out to a Tascam DA-96.

 

I'll try and record tonights show and report back.

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Just about any type of 2 track recording devise would work for L/R input from the mixer. Just depends on your budget on how much storage time and the sound quality your after for the final results. Personally I would use the direct outs you have on your mixer into a multi-track unit so I could re-mix and edit each individual track. That's approach would involve some bank probably not the route you would wanna take.

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Personally I would use the direct outs you have on your mixer into a multi-track unit so I could re-mix and edit each individual track.

 

 

I often wondered about the route that Twostone has mentioned ... using the direct outs of a MixWiz 16:2 mixer into some sort of multitrack recording device....

 

Does anybody have any experience with this sort of thing? What sorts of recorders (Features? Makes? Models?) would be suitable in this application? I've scanned the Sweetwater catalog and saw only two devices that appeared to fit the bill. There must be more options out there ... and I'm curious what they are.

 

Does anybody have any experience with this sort of setup? What would be required to make it work well?

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I often wondered about the route that Twostone has mentioned ... using the direct outs of a MixWiz 16:2 mixer into some sort of multitrack recording device....


Does anybody have any experience with this sort of thing? What sorts of recorders (Features? Makes? Models?) would be suitable in this application? I've scanned the Sweetwater catalog and saw only two devices that appeared to fit the bill. There must be more options out there ... and I'm curious what they are.


Does anybody have any experience with this sort of setup? What would be required to make it work well?

 

 

 

I've done this with my Allen/Heath Gl2 into an Echo Firewire 12 into my laptop using both VST32 and Reaper. It works very well and allows for mixdown/editing to get a good final stereo mix.

 

I've also done stereo recording by hanging a couple of decent mics ~50' out from the main speakers and running them into a DAT deck. Works well, but doesn't give as good a final product as the multi-track.

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I usually use my Tascam CDRW-4U portable CD recorder recording off a sub-bus (so FOH level doesn't affect what I'm recording). I think any CD recorder would work. The bad part is you have to change CD's every 74 minutes. The good part is it's pretty much ready to give away when the show ends. On some shows I bring a CD duplicator and duplicate what I recorded to hand out to guests that want them (subject to the band/performer's permission, of course.)

 

I also use a minidisc (MD) recorders (I have a portable and a couple of Sony homestyle decks). Some newer units can be put into "long play" mode and you get 5 hours worth of STEREO recording. All MD's are erasable/rewritable (up to a million times they say). Very convenient (they're small and rugged), but MD's can be hard to fine now. Plus you have to go home and transfer them to CD's for handing out.

 

If you are interested in MD, check out:

http://www.minidisc.org/index.php

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I've recorded Mixwiz direct outs (pre fader on V3 I think. I had my V2 converted to pre). I used an EWI 1/4" to XLR patch snake into a Tascam US-1641.

 

It works great. I also recorded directly to Laptop via a post fader aux. It's hit and miss, but listen between sets and adjust the auxes and you can get a pretty decent recording after a few shows. Also done this with a zoom recorder and had very good results (aux out into line in of recorder).

 

I do neither of these things now though. I bought a Presonus StudioLive and have complete flexibility of recording shows several different ways.

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I'm not so now if you are asking for techniques or equipment recommendation.

 

If you need the best fidelity and intend to do some editing back in your home studio, check out Korg's line of DSD recorders. One of them is a portable unit.

 

Alesis Masterlink also falls in the same category.

 

For me, recording live to CD or MD is simplest and foolproof. Just adjust input level and press record!

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I use an Alesis HD24 to record up to 24 discreet tracks. In my case, because I use a Yamaha O1v96, I take just 3 light pipes from the board to connect 24 channels. The HD 24 does have 24 channels of balanced analog in and out via 1/4" TRS as well, so it would also be a good choice for analog boards.

There are two versions, the XR has significantly better converters if you are using the analog ins and outs. MF has the XR for $1799, the standard for $1599.

It costs $800 to upgrade the standard to the XR after the fact. Also there are usually some available on ebay.

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Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm struggling to get my head around how some of the interfaces folks have recommended would function in my application.

 

Many of the ones that are in the "affordable" range (

 

Others (i.e., the AD-16X) appear to provide for the required # of physical connections via multipin connectors. I'm guessing that "fan cable" with TRS connectors on one end and a multipin on the other are readily available. These units aren't cheap with most prices tags being in the $2,500+ range - with the actual recording units needed over and above that.

 

Then there's the Alesis units - a veritible forest of TRS connectors (24 "IN" and 24 "OUT") on the back. (I can envision how this one hooks up...) Price is a not completely out of the ballpark $1,600.

 

Perhaps I should back up and be a little more specific about what I'm trying to do. I'm currently doing live recordings straight from the board - via an "AUX mix" into my little Zoom H4 recorder. While it ain't studio quality - the results I'm getting aren't all that bad. My biggest challenge is getting the AUX mix right in terms of balance. Because we run sound from stage - and my primary reason for being there are my keyboardist responsibilities - I get maybe 5 minutes on any given night to tweak the AUX mix.

 

While gear porning in the throneroom one afternoon - I stumbled across the Alesis HD24 ADAT recorder in a Sweetwater catalog...which got me to thinking.... If I could record each channel discretely - I'd be able to "remix" the raw channels at my leisure and end up with a much better mix for my final product.

 

Looking at the back panel of the Alesis - I'm thinking I should be able to simply connect a TRS cable from the output of each of the 16 channels on my MixWiz 16:2 analog mixer, set a line level on it's corresponding channel input on the recorder, press record and go play my gig - and end up with 16 synchronized channel recordings - each containing the whatever passed through the channel strip that fed it. Afterwards - I'd simply plug the 16 outputs from the recorder into the channel inputs on the same MixWiz - and mix the individually recorded channels down to a two track recording.

 

I'm thinking too that this would give me the option of taking the discrete channel recordings over to my buddy's studio (commerical joint with ALL the toys) if I wanted to have some post production magic worked.

 

Am I coming at this in the right way?

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There are really 3 ways to do it.

 

1 - Right off the board via an aux. As you know you get a blind recording. It's not perfect, but it's very cheap compared to other methods

 

2 - With a dedicated piece of gear like the ADAT, or other piece with storage built in. There are many multitrack recorders out there, just not a lot that can do more than 8 tracks at a time that are affordable. Post production capabilities of each of them vary widely from none at all to effects, compression, etc.

 

3 - Interface, laptop, software. This gets my vote as the most practical and flexible. For less than the cost of most of the #2 solutions above, you can have a fully functioning laptop that will get the job done (~$600 or less will give you the horsepower you need ). Something like the Tascam US-1641 can be had for $300. Reaper is highly capable multitrack software and a mere $60. So a budget of less than $1000 can get you what you want and you get a shiny new laptop to boot.

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Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm struggling to get my head around how some of the interfaces folks have recommended would function in my application.



Looking at the back panel of the Alesis - I'm thinking I should be able to simply connect a TRS cable from the output of each of the 16 channels on my MixWiz 16:2 analog mixer, set a line level on it's corresponding channel input on the recorder, press record and go play my gig - and end up with 16 synchronized channel recordings - each containing the whatever passed through the channel strip that fed it. Afterwards - I'd simply plug the 16 outputs from the recorder into the channel inputs on the same MixWiz - and mix the individually recorded channels down to a two track recording.


Am I coming at this in the right way?

 

 

Yes you are describing exactly how I use my HD24. I have it mounted in the same rack as my mixer, recording up to 24 tracks is effortless now, as is mixing them back down to stereo.

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I often wondered about the route that Twostone has mentioned ... using the direct outs of a MixWiz 16:2 mixer into some sort of multitrack recording device....


Does anybody have any experience with this sort of thing? What sorts of recorders (Features? Makes? Models?) would be suitable in this application? I've scanned the Sweetwater catalog and saw only two devices that appeared to fit the bill. There must be more options out there ... and I'm curious what they are.


Does anybody have any experience with this sort of setup? What would be required to make it work well?

 

 

 

 

I've made recordings from the pre-fade direct outs of my Soundcraft fx16 into a Korg D3200 and gotten some decent results - good enough for my band to make a cheap demo disc for a press pack... Hope this helps,

 

 

 

- georgestrings

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There are really 3 ways to do it.



3 - Interface, laptop, software. This gets my vote as the most practical and flexible. For less than the cost of most of the #2 solutions above, you can have a fully functioning laptop that will get the job done (~$600 or less will give you the horsepower you need ). Something like the Tascam US-1641 can be had for $300.
Reaper
is highly capable multitrack software and a mere $60. So a budget of less than $1000 can get you what you want and you get a shiny new laptop to boot.

 

What kind of learning curve for a fairly bright,but computer stupid guy like... my friend on this set-up?:lol:

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What kind of learning curve for a fairly bright,but computer stupid guy like... my friend on this set-up?
:lol:

 

I didn't find it all that difficult, but I'm a tinkerer and, having no kids, have the time to play around and figure out things. I've tried several HD recorders over the years, but they were all complicated to use with small screens and pages of menus. PC based recording is just better all around. You're not confined by whatever limitations are on a particular dedicated hardware unit you're using and can make things a simple or complex as you want. Heck, many of the dedicated units are designed to just capture the tracks for subsequent import and mixdown into a computer anyway.

 

If you want drop dead simple multitrack recording then it doesn't get any easier than a Presonus StudioLive. One firewire cable for hook up to a PC and literally 2-3 clicks of the mouse and you're recording 16 channels. You can record each track fully processed or raw and then run them back through the mixer for mix down. It's like you get a second shot at mixing the show. Actually a great way to get a good mix and sound because the board you're using live is the same one you're mixing the recording from.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Back with a report on the Numark Idec iPod interface. It's really stupid simple to use and can provide decent recordings directly off of a two track out on a board. The hard part about using this is is getting the output from the board low enough so that it doesn't overdrive the input on the ipod. You're basically utilizing the "voice memo" portion of your ipod. I've found it easy enough on my larger system where thing don't get driven quite so hard but on the smaller systems where things are pushed a little more it peaks rather easily. After addressing the gain structure of those systems (which no doubt needs to be looked at anyway) I'll be looking for a simple stereo attenuator to put in front of the Idec so I can pull it back when I want to. Over all the recording was acceptable for review/game tape applications. As most of everything recorded is mono with the exception of a stereo reverb on the snare and another and a delay on the vocal things were a little, I don't know, mono sounding. :) But the snare, which has its own reverb really opened up when it was applied, leading me to believe that with a little work this device could produce some really nice sounding tracks, but only as good as what's put into it. Unlike muti-tracking, there are no second chances at the mix. But for $300 you get a damn nice rack mounted interface that will record a decent stereo mix. One problem I had was that the unit is only 2ru, but the iPod actually sticks above that by an inch or two into what ever is above it, making it nesessary to plan ahead a little making sure that it won't hit or be in the way of any controls needed on the fly. I'd be interested in stereo attenuator suggestions. I'll check Audiopile and RDL Labs and post anything I find to be useful here.

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I use an HP laptop with 2 Presonus FP-10's for 16 tracks. I just use the inserts or direct outs on the channels depending on what the board has to offer. If I am lazy I will only take one unit and record 8 tracks, which is usually more than enough for a rock band. Usually you can sub mix some of the drum kit to one track. I used to take a Tascam DA88 which you can still find used for $150 and they will record 8 tracks for 2 hours which is nice. They are easy to mix back through the board or dump to computer. It's not a bad method and very cheap and simple, especially if you aren't thrilled with computers.

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for multi track the alesis HD24 is about the best bang for the buck, comes out of the box with BOTH analog and ADAT lightpipe, a 500$+ option on the other.

 

you just link the direct outs to the alesis and go!

 

 

Fr editing I use a computer, and in this respect, you really do need the "fire port" interface to down load the datat from teh drive (about 250$), you CAN trasfer over FTP , but is is base 10 spped, .. and so a 8 hour show, with 24 tracks takes about 2.5-3 days to trasfer over. (no you didn't read that wrong...). It uses IDE drives that are getting just a little bit hard ot find. but cheap as hell.

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Take a look at the Presonus firestudio. Not Firestudioproject Great sounding 8 track interface. You can also add to it by chaining a simular unit called the digimax to it. It adds more pre amps as you need them...pretty cool. I have used the direct outs on A&H GL series boards with great results.

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The OP asked for the best option for his small festival using his MixWiz 16:2...

 

...assuming that you're mic'ing everything through the MixWiz and you're using the FOH mix for the majority of what the audience hears (meaning that you're not just using the FOH to balance out the stage volume coming from the performers' amps, etc.), and know what you're doing with the MixWiz... then just recording direct with your FOH signal to a CD-R recorder or two track interface into a computer should be fine.

 

If you ARE just using the FOH to balance the stage volume then get a pair of small condensers and record the show from the audience's perspective. You can do this from the MixWiz if you have two strips free and just run those to a pair of aux sends and record from that...

 

If someone were wanting to do this from scratch and needing to buy the gear to do it, I'd advise that they look into the Phonic Helix firewire mixers on the low end (under $700) or the Presonus StudioLive on the high end (under $2,000). Either will allow recording of individual tracks to hard disk for mixdown later and the StudioLive can even be your hardware interface for mixdown.

 

Yes, I could have listed the FirePod/FP10/Studio/Whatever... but the OP asked for a simple way to do this... not one that involves monkeying with a TRS snake using direct outs, etc.:blah:

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I don't know what your budget is, but I recommend the Zoom H4n (new version of the H4). It will let you record both the built in microphones and a stereo line input (like a 2 channel output from your mixwiz). You can the adjust levels between the two stereo recordings directly on the H4n, or you can hook it up via USB and dump the two .wav files onto your computer, and mix them together in the bundled Cubase LE software.

 

In the 4ch mode (described above) the H4n will however only record in .wav format (no mp3). So make sure you have a big SD card (mine is 16 GB).

 

I've recorded with mine, and you get good results when you mix the two signals.

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