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Best price on an 18" Black Widow basket???

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  • #16
    Hey, I wasn't endorsing audio lines. I just found them for a better price. I know that doesn't mean anything. You get what you pay for.

    What I do know is that when I put the LoRiders in my DTH subs, they came to life. And really pound hard. Half a QSC3402 on each driver through an NL8 connector on four of the conductors. The other four are for the tops.


    We have a pair of DTH 118s http://www.peavey.com/media/pdf/manuals/80300276.pdf and one of the 1801-4 drivers is bad. This looks like this low rider driver will handle a LOT more power if I can get it to the speaker than the BW 1801-4 in those cabs, but the lowrider is 7-8 ohm instead of the 4-6 ohm of the 1801-4. Could you tell a little more about your experiences with your dth? They match the cabinet well? We might want to go ahead and replace both the drivers in the DTH cabs with these and add them to a pair of JBL 4719x (4 ohm) subs on a Tapco 2500 watt amp (This should give me ballpark 1200 to 1300 watts per side with one JBL and one DTH on each side). I also am looking at another pair of DTH 118s locally and might get them and throw them into the rig as well (pair of 118s per side on one amp, pair of 4719x cabs on another amp)

    Mongo like candy. DJ like bass.

    I keep seeing everyone say not to bridge to the speakers. The JBL speaker rates program of 1200 watts and the Tapco amp bridges 4 ohms at 2500 watts (that is what, up to 5k watts in hard clipping or am I wrong on that?). I suppose the amp even turned down halfway will still provide large (dangerous) power even with a 30hz high pass and a crossover around 100 hz. I am just not going to get the power of half a qsc 3402 without bridging from my current current. I don't really know how much juice I would get out of a 20 amp circuit in any event at 120 and wheter it would be worth it to put a larger power amplifier on a 20 amp circuit. I would really like to hear what the wiser heads here think....

    Finally, what do you think about defeating the 30hz high pass filter on the amp and using an EQ to try and drop the lows to around 20 to 25 hz? Am I just asking for trouble?

    Thanks!


    Tapco Juice 2500 Amp:
    Continuous Sine Wave Average Output Power per channel, both channels driven, 20 Hz to 20 kHz
    2 ohms: 1400 W
    4 ohms: 750 W
    8 ohms: 575 W

    Bridged Mono Operation, 20 Hz to 20 kHz
    4 ohms: 2500 W
    8 ohms: 1500 W

    DTH 118:
    http://www.peavey.com/media/pdf/manuals/80300276.pdf

    6 ohm nominal
    4 ohm minimum
    350 watts continuous
    700 watts program
    1400 watts peak
    50hz-250hz (50hz -3db)

    JBL 4719x
    1200 watts program (@ 4 ohms)
    Frequency range: 30Hz to 300Hz

    =================================
    Drivers
    BW 1804-1
    http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-PEA0560460.html
    Peavey 1801-4 LT BW Features:
    Impedance: 4 Ohms
    Power capacity: 1400 W Peak, 700 W Program, 350 W Continuous
    Sensitivity: 97.5 dB / 1 W 1 m
    Usable freq. range: 35 Hz ~ 1 kHz
    Cone: Kevlar(R) impregnated cellulose
    Voice coil diameter: 4.0 inch / 100 mm
    Replacement Basket http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/116652/1801-4%20LT%20BW%20RB.cfm


    Low Rider 18
    http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-PEA0560600.html
    Peavey 18" Low Rider Subwoofer Specifications:
    Impedance: 8 Ohms
    Power capacity: 3200 W Peak, 1600 W Program, 800 W Continuous
    Sensitivity: 97.3 dB
    Usable freq. range: 25 Hz ~ 1 kHz
    Cone: Kevlar
    Shelby Hoyl
    DJDFW
    A Wedding DJ
    http://www.djdfw.com
    http://www.myspace.com/djdfw

    Comment


    • #17
      Low rider and lo max are IMO two different animals.

      My DTH cabs are 218 and came equipped with the 1888-8 HP drivers originally. The Low riders are a very close replacement. I don't know how close the 1801-4 are to the Low rider. You could try it.

      Re: JBL and DTH on the same side of the stage. You may find that the JBL is more sensitive and gets louder with the same power. Therefore, you try to turn up the DTHs and boom. You blow them up.

      I think if you need to mix two different types to have both the same type on one side.

      Always use the high pass filter at the minimum of 30hz. I wouldn't dream of using my subs without the HPF.

      I have 5 amps (3 QSC 3402) on 2 20A circuits. Never breaks a breaker.
      Dale Christenson
      Sound4U
      A local sound provider serving Oklahoma and surrounding areas.
      http://sound4u.co

      Comment


      • #18
        no hpf is just nuts IMO.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

        Comment


        • #19
          Generally, there's not a whole lot of room to deal pricing-wise on replacement parts.

          Give the business to you local dealer.



          You know, I would - except my local dealers really aren't worth bothering with, and can't/won't compete with mail order... Truth is, other than buying used gear at Daddy's Junky Music, the rest of my local dealers are pretty much useless - why should I spend more with them if I can get it cheaper elsewhere???

          Parts Express sells the replacement basket for around $100 - that's probably the way I'll go... I won't be buying anything more expensive, as these are intended to be a pair of low cost 118 subs to pair up with my SP118s when I need them...

          Thanks for the replies, everyone...



          - georgestrings

          Comment


          • #20
            You know, I would - except my local dealers really aren't worth bothering with, and can't/won't compete with mail order... Truth is, other than buying used gear at Daddy's Junky Music, the rest of my local dealers are pretty much useless - why should I spend more with them if I can get it cheaper elsewhere???

            Parts Express sells the replacement basket for around $100 - that's probably the way I'll go... I won't be buying anything more expensive, as these are intended to be a pair of low cost 118 subs to pair up with my SP118s when I need them...

            Thanks for the replies, everyone...



            - georgestrings
            That's weird. My local dealers give me better prices than the online businesses.
            tlbonehead@yahoo.com
            www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
            -For Sale:
            -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
            -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
            - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
            - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
            - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

            Comment


            • #21
              That's weird. My local dealers give me better prices than the online businesses.



              Believe me, if they would atleast try to be a bit competitive, I'd give it a shot - besides, they really don't offer much in the way of services, or keeping a useable inventory around, either... So, if I have to "order" through them, still wait for something to come in, THEN pay tax and their mark-up, why shouldn't I just order it myself, and save hassle and money???

              I understand the plusses of supporting local dealers, but it's a lost cause in my area...



              - georgestrings

              Comment


              • #22
                Thanks for the info gentlemen! There were a pair of DTH 118s on CL locally for $500, but they sold the day I saw the ad (before she got my message)
                : ( I thought they would match well with my pair of DTH 118s. I will look around for more specs on the particular drivers (low rider, 1801-4, etc....) and will post them if I find them.
                http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/misc/blackwidow.cfm

                I suspect there is a good chance I will either recone or replace the basket on the one DTH 118 if it is not something as simple as a loose wire from moving the boxes.

                After reading a paper,
                http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/chapter_4.pdf
                I have a better handle on electrical watts from the wall vs musical watts from the amp (capacitors have something to do with it much as free will has something to do with evil existing in the world). I see that 120 volts x 20 amps = 2400 watts maximum from the wall, but because power from the amplifier is musical and amplifiers have capacitors, power amps larger than 2400 watts can store energy to provide greater than 2400 watts on peaks though the wall normally only supplies a maximum of 2400 watts. I had noticed our amplifiers did not draw nearly as many amps as I would have expected when I metered them. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200321255_200321255

                We always kept the high pass filter engaged (and the clip limiter is always engaged and taped that way as well) and I think that is the safest way to do it and a good habit to keep. It is probably a bad idea to use a steep xover at a lower frequency to try and squeeze out lower lows. Better to be safe and stay within factory limits and still have speakers for the next show...

                We aren't bridging the nicer subs because I am afraid of overpowering the sub. When we need more lows, we just add more cabinets and use both channels and add more amps and cabinets as needed. We are using one side of an amp to run one 4719x sub and that is 750 watts maximum. Adding a sub to the other side for more sound is easy to cable, but these subs are large and heavy (almost 200 lbs each for the 4719x and the DTH are HUGE and heavy). I would like to get maximum efficiency from our cabs and amps while staying within reasonable bounds of safety and wonder if bridging one sub is too dangerous. I have bridged an 800 watt amp to a Peavey 218 (2,000 watt program rating) at times to give extra bass.

                Using a sub with a program rating of 1,200 watts and a peak rating of 2,400 watts, would it be generally acceptable to bridge a 2,500 watt amp and keep the level controls no greater than half? This assumes that nobody else (no guest djs) will be operating the system and we keep the mixer in the green.
                Shelby Hoyl
                DJDFW
                A Wedding DJ
                http://www.djdfw.com
                http://www.myspace.com/djdfw

                Comment


                • #23
                  Using a sub with a program rating of 1,200 watts and a peak rating of 2,400 watts, would it be generally acceptable to bridge a 2,500 watt amp and keep the level controls no greater than half? This assumes that nobody else (no guest djs) will be operating the system and we keep the mixer in the green.
                  No.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    ok. Thanks.

                    Is it just the power or is there something else I am missing too (just keeping it to bridging lol)
                    Shelby Hoyl
                    DJDFW
                    A Wedding DJ
                    http://www.djdfw.com
                    http://www.myspace.com/djdfw

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      That 2400w amp can probably do 500w into each sub in stereo which will give them (and your amp) a long life and you only loose 2-3db over cooking the $%^& out of them .

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        ok. Thanks.

                        Is it just the power or is there something else I am missing too (just keeping it to bridging lol)
                        the full poweris still there available to blow them if you have a slight oops, or just can't resist pushing the gain elsewhere.
                        tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                        www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                        -For Sale:
                        -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                        -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                        - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                        - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                        - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The level controls do not limit the power.
                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thank you all very much! It really does help to get the nudge in the right direction. I can see how running things too close to danger if someone knocks out a speaker plug to swings a microphone (the best men and bridesmaids were just about fighting over a mike tonight when giving a toast) could be trouble. With 2500 watts power still there in the amp it is too close even with 2400 watt peak ratings on the speakers and running amp power below rated speaker capacity would not drop too much in spl and be a lot easier on the speakers.
                            Shelby Hoyl
                            DJDFW
                            A Wedding DJ
                            http://www.djdfw.com
                            http://www.myspace.com/djdfw

                            Comment



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