Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

We need a dedicated monitor for our keyboardist - Adding to house's monitors?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse







X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16

    The only drawback is all the keyboard player will have is his vocals only in his monitor.


    Quite the problem.

    If I can find a way to reliably pimp the standard front monitor signal path, I'd be set. Right now, a powered monitor would make sense, if I could also somehow feed the speaker-level signal off one of the monitors into our monitor.
    <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="2"><b>&quot;Understanding that sentence meant he wasn't much of a chess player.&quot;</b></font><b> - <i>Abzurd</i><br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2377395" target="_blank"> Winner of MYSTIC FX'S Most Metal Face, Early '09 Award</a></b><br />
    <br />
    <font size="1">Eden WT550B, D212XLT-4 times two, D210XLT, SKB US Roto Rack 4U, USA-made X2 XDS-Plus, Korg DT-7 tuner, Tobias Killer B5, Ibanez Prestige SR1005EFM, world-famous custom rack mounted CUP HOLDER! For my <b>BEER!</b></font></div>

    Comment


    • #17
      it seems to me that your best bet would be to focus on having your monitors at your four vocal locations. If your drummer is not a vocalist, sorry but he slides a slot down the list. Now, the problem to overcome is handling your stage volume so that your 5th member who does not have a monitor can still handle the stage volume and can hear him/herself.

      Benefits to this are that you'll tighten up as a band because you'll be forced to control your stage situation (not saying that it's out of control right now, just not pairing up well with your performance scenarios).

      There's really no lose in this situation. You'll get some extra practice in while your working on volume levels and you might be out the cost of a speaker cable if you are having trouble getting that extra wedge to your Keyboard location. (Ie. Buy one to facilitate the problem so that you can get what you want.)


      Drummer does not sing.

      But in some of these venues, they have those HUGE pillar speaker cabs, and leave them permanently placed on the drum risers. Very very difficult to pull it down and drag over to the keyboardist. I think even bringing a passive wedge and an extra cable AND cable jumper, to just unplug the drummer monitor and add on the extra wedge, would be doable in MOST our stages.

      But truthfully, the in-ear monitors is where we should be going. Just a lot of cash for us right now. I wanna fix UNTIL we can afford the IEM's.
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="2"><b>&quot;Understanding that sentence meant he wasn't much of a chess player.&quot;</b></font><b> - <i>Abzurd</i><br />
      <br />
      <a href="http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2377395" target="_blank"> Winner of MYSTIC FX'S Most Metal Face, Early '09 Award</a></b><br />
      <br />
      <font size="1">Eden WT550B, D212XLT-4 times two, D210XLT, SKB US Roto Rack 4U, USA-made X2 XDS-Plus, Korg DT-7 tuner, Tobias Killer B5, Ibanez Prestige SR1005EFM, world-famous custom rack mounted CUP HOLDER! For my <b>BEER!</b></font></div>

      Comment


      • #18

        If I can find a way to reliably pimp the standard front monitor signal path, I'd be set. Right now, a powered monitor would make sense, if I could also somehow feed the speaker-level signal off one of the monitors into our monitor.


        Aren't you contradicting yourself there. Seems like daisy chaining a passive of one of the other speakers back to the drummer may be the way to go. It's all speculation till you find out how it's set up at the club though.

        Comment


        • #19
          Drummer does not sing.

          But in some of these venues, they have those HUGE pillar speaker cabs, and leave them permanently placed on the drum risers. Very very difficult to pull it down and drag over to the keyboardist. I think even bringing a passive wedge and an extra cable AND cable jumper, to just unplug the drummer monitor and add on the extra wedge, would be doable in MOST our stages.

          But truthfully, the in-ear monitors is where we should be going. Just a lot of cash for us right now. I wanna fix UNTIL we can afford the IEM's.


          I think this could be your solution. Figure out what the most common stage monitor you are dealing with is, make sure it will fit the power specs on the drum amp, buy a passive cab to match them and a cable long enough to get where you need = 4th mix placed where it needs to be, and safely to boot.

          Comment


          • #20
            If all he wants is his vocals, then a powered cabinet should work. I haven't seen one without a pass through. A lot of them have built in mic preamps so they'll take a mic input directly. I use a Yorkville NX25P. That or something similar would be one approach. If you need other vocals or instruments from the board, again, that really depends on how the system you're attaching to is configured.

            Is there some reason you think the dozen places you play would have the same monitor problem?



            I know that most of these places either has all the front row monitors on the same circuit so we don't even get personal blending, just one massive return, or their monitors are way too large to even move over to the keyboardist. I worry that adding a monitor would drop the ohms down too low, and I worry an active monitor won't work without finding their power amps, finding which one is the monitor amp, and splitting the signal without ****************ing something up and releasing the Magic Smoke.

            Right now, I'm thinking just unplugging one of the front row monitors, and replacing it with our wedge and an extra long speaker cable, is the current least-obtrusive fix.

            I'd need a wedge with both 1/4" and Speakon, to match whatever the house is using. Or at least one 1/4" cable and a 1/4"-to-Speakon adapter of some sort.

            GAWD the more I process this, the more I want IEM's...
            <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="2"><b>&quot;Understanding that sentence meant he wasn't much of a chess player.&quot;</b></font><b> - <i>Abzurd</i><br />
            <br />
            <a href="http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2377395" target="_blank"> Winner of MYSTIC FX'S Most Metal Face, Early '09 Award</a></b><br />
            <br />
            <font size="1">Eden WT550B, D212XLT-4 times two, D210XLT, SKB US Roto Rack 4U, USA-made X2 XDS-Plus, Korg DT-7 tuner, Tobias Killer B5, Ibanez Prestige SR1005EFM, world-famous custom rack mounted CUP HOLDER! For my <b>BEER!</b></font></div>

            Comment


            • #21
              I think this could be your solution. Figure out what the most common stage monitor you are dealing with is, make sure it will fit the power specs on the drum amp, buy a passive cab to match them and a cable long enough to get where you need = 4th mix placed where it needs to be, and safely to boot.


              You think it's be safe to... no nevermind the drummer only ever wants ONLY his kickdrum and Tony's guitar in his monitors. Hmmm.... we'd have to completely pimp his monitors.

              Hmmm.....
              <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="2"><b>&quot;Understanding that sentence meant he wasn't much of a chess player.&quot;</b></font><b> - <i>Abzurd</i><br />
              <br />
              <a href="http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2377395" target="_blank"> Winner of MYSTIC FX'S Most Metal Face, Early '09 Award</a></b><br />
              <br />
              <font size="1">Eden WT550B, D212XLT-4 times two, D210XLT, SKB US Roto Rack 4U, USA-made X2 XDS-Plus, Korg DT-7 tuner, Tobias Killer B5, Ibanez Prestige SR1005EFM, world-famous custom rack mounted CUP HOLDER! For my <b>BEER!</b></font></div>

              Comment


              • #22
                You think it's be safe to... no nevermind the drummer only ever wants ONLY his kickdrum and Tony's guitar in his monitors. Hmmm.... we'd have to completely pimp his monitors.

                Hmmm.....


                Exactly, if your drummer is having trouble hearing his kick drum, either the rest of the band is too loud or he is too soft. (judging from the info, I am assuming these stages can't be too big). Put your guitar player's cabinet on a stand, sidewashing the stage so both he and the drummer can hear it. Monitor to keys.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Amp's already on a stand, but we gotta stop doing the sidewash. At first, it worked. Until I'd step forward to sing or to headbang on top of my monitor, then I'd completely block him. Right now, he keeps his amp directly behind him at the front corner of the drum riser.

                  I know. I've got an excuse or reason for EVERYTHING today...
                  <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="2"><b>&quot;Understanding that sentence meant he wasn't much of a chess player.&quot;</b></font><b> - <i>Abzurd</i><br />
                  <br />
                  <a href="http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2377395" target="_blank"> Winner of MYSTIC FX'S Most Metal Face, Early '09 Award</a></b><br />
                  <br />
                  <font size="1">Eden WT550B, D212XLT-4 times two, D210XLT, SKB US Roto Rack 4U, USA-made X2 XDS-Plus, Korg DT-7 tuner, Tobias Killer B5, Ibanez Prestige SR1005EFM, world-famous custom rack mounted CUP HOLDER! For my <b>BEER!</b></font></div>

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Use a small mixer and submix keys and vocals. Out of the mixer use l/r to drive 1 or 2 powered speakers then use an aux send to drive a DI with keys only and a 2nd aux send to drive a DI for vocals only. A direct out can be used like this too, or even pan keys to the left, vocals center. Left out drives the key wedge, right to DI for vocal only mix and use an aux send for keys only mix. This only works in mono keys setups.
                    <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="http://www.rock-bot.com" target="_blank">www.rock-bot.com</a><br />
                    Live-Band-Karaoke<br />
                    <br />
                    bassist and sound reinforcement</div>

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Were it I, and it often is, I would get the best monitor I could and rack up an 31 band or parametric eq and a decent amp including a fifty foot speaker cable with various adaptors, a mic cable and a line level cable and bring it to the gig with me. That way if they've got the amps, you're covered. if they don't have the amps, you're covered. If they have an extra aux mix, you're covered. One monitor and a three space rack for almost any contingency. Problem solved.

                      It'll probably sound better than the stuff littering the front of the stage in most places. As far as recommendations go- I like the JBL MR902 or MR905 for entry level monitors. The SR4602 is older favorite and can be found at a reasonable price, often with a road case.
                      I love to sing, and I love to drink scotch. Most people would rather hear me drink scotch.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The horizon mentioned above works well. Bang for the buck...I think the MST-412 from audiopile is a much better deal. 4 channels of splits for just over $100 and works well. If you're just going to run the keyboardists vocals, any halfway decent powered 12" box will work. My personal favorite is the QSC Hpr122i. But they just came out with a new series (K-series) thats getting good reviews. Also I like a decent 1/3 octave on any monitor.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Situations like this are why I have a TC Helicon VSM300XT (and a VSM200XT for that matter). The break-out box gives full pass through of vocals and whatever - I balance my own vocal and keyboard levels with the monitor mix I get from the desk.
                          <div class="signaturecontainer"><font face="Verdana"><a href="http://www.voyagerproject.co.uk" target="_blank">Voyager Project</a> - <a href="http://www.fallen-angel.org.uk" target="_blank">Fallen Angel</a> - <a href="http://www.thetimbermerchants.co.uk" target="_blank">The Timber Merchants</a></font></div>

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I don't think anyone has mentioned the possibility of getting a powered monitor that accepts speaker level. I know that the Yorkville E160P (just discontinued, plenty of them used) accepts speaker levels as well as line levels. I own a couple of these and have used the speaker level mode in a pinch - box mixer on a low pro gig.

                            I don't know how the overall resistance would be effected (check specs I guess) but it would offer quick and easy access to the front wedges, and "volume, treble and bass" controls. You just take a quarter inch speaker cable from the appropriate wedge and run that to the quarter inch in on the E160P.

                            There should be other manufacturers (and other Yorkville models) offering this feature, might be worth a look.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I don't think anyone has mentioned the possibility of getting a powered monitor that accepts speaker level.
                              There are plenty of DI's that accept speaker level and output line level XLR .

                              "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                There are plenty of DI's that accept speaker level and output line level XLR .


                                Oh yea... way back when, I used an H&K speaker to line transformer. Lack of sleep makes me slow, or is that stunned. Anyway, still worth a look.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X