Members gtrplayer Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 4pc band, currently running a powered Carvin board, 2 SP2 mains, 2 Monitors, all powered by the board. Drums mic'd, guitar mic'd, bass direct, 3 vocals. We need LOW END!!!! What is the simplest, most effective "quality" way to "sub" it to achieve that low end Quality boom. We've tried peace mealing an OLD OLD BIG giant sub, powered by an OLD OLD OLLLLD poweramp... all this did was REALLY mess everything else up! No crossover either so.... We run our own sound and don't play arenas or BIG events. Just small local bars and we're looking for quality sound. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 Which Carvin board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 i run the carvin 1644p board..but use outboard amps (carvin dcm 600 to power carvin 3 way mains and qsc gsx 500 to power a set of jbl jrx subs) i use the onboard amps just to power the monitors..although most of us are using in ears we still like the monitors on the floor...im using a simple BBE crossover. we mike everything and i tell you it sounds great! the jrx subs get a bad rap and so does the carvin stuff on this board...but i tell you for bang for the buck you cant beat this setup...the subs pump nicely with the qsc. nice tight bottom end. im sure side by side there is no comparing the mrx series subs to the jrx...but the jrxs will do the job nicely once its dialed in. im constantly getting compliments on this system from both club owners and other bands. been running it no problems for about 4 years 3-4 nights a week in various clubs throughout the tri-state area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 There's no reason a line out into a decent powered sub shouldn't work for you. For small bars, something like the Yorkville LS700P would get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrplayer Posted May 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 There's no reason a line out into a decent powered sub shouldn't work for you. For small bars, something like the Yorkville LS700P would get the job done. Would I need a crossover?? Using the Carvin 1644P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 In a word, Yes. Trying to send a full range signal into a sub amp and the sub speaker will only muck up the sound. You don't want any frequency above approx. 125hz going to your sub. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 In a word, Yes.Trying to send a full range signal into a sub amp and the sub speaker will only muck up the sound. You don't want any frequency above approx. 125hz going to your sub. YMMV. The sub is powered with a built in crossover. The down side is it has no highpass outs. The qsc hpr subs have a built in crossover as well as highpass outs. http://www.qsc.com/products/speakers/hpr/hpr151i.htm http://www.qsc.com/products/speakers/hpr/hpr181i.htm They do have a high price but are a great sub. The JBL PRX518s sounds good as well but in the same price range. http://www.uniquesquared.com/servlet/the-444/JBL-PRX-518S-PRX518S/Detail There is low cost subs as well. There is allot of simple powered subs out there. Just some examples to look at. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DNHJC0 http://www.grabcart.com/product/ele/sound/instrumentproamapxw15pame/American-Audio-PXW-15P Dookietwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 The sub is powered with a built in crossover. Oops, didn't realize that before I posted. Thanks for the correction. My statement stands as far as passive subs go, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Would I need a crossover?? Using the Carvin 1644P You may be able to get by without one. You could try it and see. Fortunately that mixer would allow you to run to a crossover or from the high-pass outs then back into the power amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrplayer Posted May 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 If I bought a powered sub with a built in cross over and using the Carvin 1644P, I'm understanding that I would not need a crossover. I want this to work, solid, well and give quality sound the first time out. I do not want to "skimp" on anything with this endevor. I've done that before and it NEVER works. I like the idea of that powered Yorkville LS700P. So with using that, would I need a crossover? Thanks again everyone! You guys are awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 If I bought a powered sub with a built in cross over and using the Carvin 1644P, I'm understanding that I would not need a crossover.I want this to work, solid, well and give quality sound the first time out. I do not want to "skimp" on anything with this endevor. I've done that before and it NEVER works. I like the idea of that powered Yorkville LS700P. So with using that, would I need a crossover?Thanks again everyone! You guys are awesome! Maybe. The Yorkville has a crossover that will keep the highs out of the subs, but doesn't do anything to keep the lows out of the mains. That may sound okay or it may sound muddy. Dookietwo mentioned a couple of subs that have high pass outs. With those, you'd feed the line outs from the mixer to the sub, then the high-pass outs from the subs back to the amp inputs on the mixer. The crossover in the subs will have removed the low frequencies from the signals coming out of it. Generally that will sound better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrplayer Posted May 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Maybe. The Yorkville has a crossover that will keep the highs out of the subs, but doesn't do anything to keep the lows out of the mains. That may sound okay or it may sound muddy.Dookietwo mentioned a couple of subs that have high pass outs. With those, you'd feed the line outs from the mixer to the sub, then the high-pass outs from the subs back to the amp inputs on the mixer. The crossover in the subs will have removed the low frequencies from the signals coming out of it. Generally that will sound better Wow! Now that sounds like it is what I will want...I want it to be the best it can be given our size etc. However, that is slightly confusing... you'd feed the line outs from the mixer to the sub, then the high-pass outs from the subs back to the amp inputs on the mixer. Line "outs?" and where are the amp inputs on the mixer?? What is it called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 The LS700P "crossover" is a bit of a joke. It lets WAY too much mid bass through. I recommend that, if you go that route, you get a real crossover. Other powered subs have better built in crossovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Wow! Now that sounds like it is what I will want...I want it to be the best it can be given our size etc. However, that is slightly confusing... Line "outs?" and where are the amp inputs on the mixer?? What is it called? It may say "Preamp out" and "Power amp in". Can you find a link to your mixers manual? Dookietwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Wow! Now that sounds like it is what I will want...I want it to be the best it can be given our size etc. However, that is slightly confusing... Line "outs?" and where are the amp inputs on the mixer?? What is it called? I'm not familiar with the subs, but it should be obvious when you look at them. The amp inputs are on the back of the mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 I like the DBX 223 XL crossover.You may be able to find a nice used one for under a hundred. I think you should use an active , external crossover.It will give you so much control you will wonder how you ever did without it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrplayer Posted May 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Ok, so I'm now looking harder at this one for size and portability... http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRX518S/ Does this JBL have a "good" cross over in it?? I don't mind having to buy a crossover if it means that it will work and sound much better... The LS700P "crossover" is a bit of a joke. It lets WAY too much mid bass through. I recommend that, if you go that route, you get a real crossover. Other powered subs have better built in crossovers. Ok, so better yet. Lets say I go with one JBL powered 18" sub as above AND the DBX 223 XL crossover. Would this do the trick well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 The PRX 518 should work. You would not need the DBX crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Yes, it has a very steep 48dB per octave crossover. You lose flexibility as it's a fixed crossover point of 110 Hz, but that's no big deal. I own the Yorkville sub and have heard the PRX. IMO, the Yorkville is capable of higher output, but at the expense of accuracy (they JBL is more accurate). That's the tradeoff with the design of the 700P (bandpass). It's tuned to put out the most sound at certain frequencies. The suckers really put out though considering their size. I bought mine used for $1000 for the pair so that's why I ended up with them. They did the job though and I recommend them for their high "boom for the buck". That said, if you're buying new, I'd probably go with the JBL. Lighter by 10 lbs or so, better resale, much better features (real crossover, indicator lights for signal and clip, XLR inputs, phase switch) - all things the LS700P lack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrplayer Posted May 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Wow! You guys are great! thanks so much... Looks like the JBL will be the one! I'll keep you "posted" on how it goes... I'm sure going from NOTHING for low end, to this will be a huge difference for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Picker Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 I am certinly not the expert here, but from my understanding you are pretty much always better off using an external crossover than the one provided in the Sub.Since the crossover is not an expensive (reltively speaking) item, you would most likely get a better result if you added this into the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 29, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Use an external crossover. While the "out to the subs, then back through the mixer's amp" idea will work, it's a LOT of extra and long cable to run. Look into a used dbx crossover, or one from Samson, Peavey, DOD, etc. This way all the patch cables are short: one from mixer main out to crossover, one long cable from crossover LF to the sub, and from crossover HF back into the mixer amp input. You'll also have a LOT better control over the rig with an external crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrplayer Posted May 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Ok, so I just bought the JBL Sub... I got it for 890.00 at zzounds... free shipping. they price matched.. What cords will I need to run this from my board? Carvin 1644P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Ok, so I just bought the JBL Sub...I got it for 890.00 at zzounds... free shipping. they price matched..What cords will I need to run this from my board? Carvin 1644P Are you planning on running the high pass back to the mixer or just mixer to sub? I have a Samson S2 crossover I'll sell for a good price if you decide to go for a crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrplayer Posted June 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 Ok...so we have the powered JBL sub with the built in crossover. We run ONE line... from the MONO out of the powered board to the sub. the bass is certainly there now with the kick drum and other drums, BUT...there are couple of issues. 1. Foremost, the bass sound is very "ringy" it's not "tight" at all.. just VERY VERY Booomy... Booooommmmmyyyyy. Powerful, but boomy. 2. EVERY low singnal goes through it... the bass guitar booms through it and when I "chunk" on the guitar it booms through it... Put this all in the mix and over all there really is no difference in the band's sound other than it's a BIT more bassy...and boomy, but nothing difinitive. Is the answer an external cross over?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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