House Concerts

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

 

I have just bought an old house that I am going to be renovating. My wife and I like to host house concerts and intend to continue when our renos are finished. I am just wondering if there is something I should be considering with my renos that involve house concert sound. Our last place we would just hook up the PA and have the artist play, but giving that we are ripping out walls and floors I'm thinking this is the best time to add "something". I just don't know what.

 

Thought?

 

s.

[gubu]

 

Hi, I have just bought an old house that I am going to be renovating. My wife and I like to host house concerts and intend to continue when our renos are finished. I am just wondering if there is something I should be considering with my renos that involve house concert sound. Our last place we would just hook up the PA and have the artist play, but giving that we are ripping out walls and floors I'm thinking this is the best time to add "something". I just don't know what. Thought? s.

 

 

Google 'acoustic treatments'. You don't actually need to buy the readymade (and often expensive) wall or ceiling treatments. Once you see a design solution that you like or that would work within your context, you can build to a similar design yourself if you're good with that sort of thing or have your 2nd fix carpenter incorporate it into the finish of the room..

[6Imzadi]

If you're ripping up the floors, consider running a 4" conduit (PVC) under there to get the snake to the stage.

 

This reminds me of the movie "Old School" where the renovated the house and had Snoop Dogg as one of the headliners.

 

Also, if you are going to "hang" speakers, lights, etc., make sure the structure can handle that load.

[RoadRanger]

How big will the "concert room" be? Is is multi-purpose or dedicated? With a larger room you could do something interesting with a home-theater/live-music room. If big enough a "house sound system" and/or mix-position/permanent-snake ...

[Square]

If you plan on making live music a regular event at your house, then I think there are a lot of things you can "design in" :

 

- Load in/out facilities - i.e big doors, ramps, etc

- Proper electrical - GFCI for the muso's, proper number of circuits for sound& light

- Bathroom facilities for the band near the stage

- Dressing rooms?

- If indoors, you will want multiple exits, just in case

- the aformentioned acoustical treatment will also be determined by how close your neighbors are

[jwlussow]

Most important is the quantity of high quality power. Have the stage on it's own 50 amp or multiple 20 amp circuits. Make sure you have accounted for the placement of snakes, if used. Also look into power for lighting. If all LED is used it will make the power requirements much easier.

[agedhorse]

Guys, house concerts are MUCH smaller than what you are thinking of. A capacity of 50 would be huge, typically (around here anyway) a house concert would max out around 35-40, which would require a room of around 500-600 square feet. That's a big room for most houses.

 

Here's what I would look at first:

 

1. bathroom facilities are essential, you will want to be sure you have maybe 2 accessable bathrooms to the area. If you are on a septic system, now't the time to expand it or you may end up with bigger problems.

 

2. Acoustc treatments are very helpful... carpet is the easiest and least expensive, but I would also look closely at the walls. Drapery is probably the most compatable treatment for residential, but the drape will ned to be heavy (16oz) and cover maybe 25% of the wall area.

 

3. Parking, this is pretty much essential.

 

4. Permits... this may be a deal killer.

 

5. Neighbor relations... another potential deal killer.

 

6. Convenient power... a dedicated 20 amp circuit with adequate breakout should be plenty. 2 x 20 amps is overkill but won't cost but a few dollars more so that's what I would do. There's no need for a 50 amp 120/240 volt for distro.

 

7. Reasonable lighting and power. I would look at LED lighting for this, it eliminates a lot of electrical as well as heat load.

 

8. If you do this in the summer and it's a warm climate, consider expanding the air conditioning and air flow to that part of the house.

[boomerweps]

Simplest and best upgrade is plenty of AC power. Have many outlets on MANY seperate circuits and make them all 20 amp. Especially have several weather protected outdoor outlets if you like the backyard venue setup (or a 50Amp jack with a small distro uint for outdoors).

 

Access for easy loadin/loadout. WIDE doors, ramps versus stairs, even an easy to keep clean floor at the load area. Nothing worse than spending $$ to make a place look nice and having it trashed up by people carrying heavy gear in and out.

 

In a house I wouldn't worry about installing snakes BUT I would consider how and where cables get routed so as to be protected from being walked on. Maybe something like a removable floor panel for routing cables across walkways.

 

Boomerweps

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

 

Thanks for all the comments. This is our house first and a stage second.

 

I hadn't considered electrical, but of course it makes sense. Adding a couple more outlets in the 'stage' could make a big difference depending on the show. Is 20 Amp a recomendation or a must?

 

Agedhorse is correct about capacity. 30-40 people is what I would expect for a crowd. Most performers were able to carry in their gear through a standard door so I don't see the need for a ramp, but a wider door would look cool. The house has a full basement so I was considering just running cables there and pop them up on either side of the room.

 

In the summer we would probably have them in the back yard, which would again mean suppling power back there.

 

Acoustic treatments: I don't think we'd have noise complaints from next door, but I am curious about improving sound quality. I would even be interested in recording the shows, so if acoustic treatments help in that sense I am up for it.

 

Just to give you an idea, this is what we used to do before we moved away...

www.loftconcerts.ca

 

s.

[witesol]

for sure I'd look into treating the room's acoustics. it makes for a more focused better experience for audience and performer...and better recordings too. i dont suppose you have drums in the house? soundproofing is a whole other area, not really related to acoustics. if isolation is required, now is the time; during construction.

[agedhorse]

If you are in Canada as I gather from your artist list, 15 amp circuits are pretty much the CSA and Hydro dept standard, so that's fine. A couple of 15 amp circuits will be just fine.

 

You might want to double-check to see if there are any fire (or assembly area) specific building codes you might be better off addressing during the renovation rather than after you are done.

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

 

Yes, we are in Canada.

 

I think I will focus on good power for the "stage" areas and consider acoustic treatments that match with the living room.

 

Thanks to everyone for your input. With the amount of work we need to do on this house it would be easy to forget about the house concert side of the renos. I appreciate your thoughts.

 

s.

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

 

The renos are slowly coming together and the wiring is going in. I started thinking that it would be nice to have a floor box for the mics, guitars, keyboard, speakers, etc to plug into. Then I would have cables run under the floor to the back of the house and up to the mixer. I figure this would be cleaner and safer for people to walk around the living room. Can anyone suggest how I can do this and who might sell such a box? I was thinking that an XLR-1/4" combo jack would make a smaller box and a simpler connection, but I could be wrong here. I don't have a lot of knowledge with pro audio.

 

My thinking is to use a Yorkville M810 for all the mixing and power. I haven't bought any equipment yet so this isn't set in stone. I only rented equipment for our last concert series and the M810 is what I got used to, but I am open to other thoughts.

 

Thank you.

 

s.

[agedhorse]

Floor boxes are a huge source of problems. I suggest a wall mount input panel and once you are inside the wall you can get under the floor.

 

Besides, no matter where you put the biox, it will be in the way for somebody.

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

 

What kind of problems are there with floor boxes vs wall plates? Is it that they can be stepped on, or is there something more?

 

Any thoughts on this wall plate?

 

I just realized I now have to learn soldering...

 

s.

[madjack]

 

Hi, What kind of problems are there with floor boxes vs wall plates? Is it that they can be stepped on, or is there something more? Any thoughts on this wall plate? I just realized I now have to learn soldering... s.

 

 

A floor box will not only get stepped on, but will inevitably get foreign matter down into the jacks; think of the dust bunnies that build up under furniture, the particulate matter that composes them will end up in the jacks. A wall plate will have less of that sort of problem due to being vertical.

[agedhorse]

Dustbunnies, liquids, bits and pieces of everything.

 

Any floor boxes I have to use are deep theatrical type with hinged cover and slanted connector panel.

[Craig Vecchione]

Just say 'no' to floor boxes. Remember, someday you'll be selling this house, and it's a slim chance the new owner will place any value on such a renovation "feature". Wall openings can be very easily patched and repainted. Floors are an entirely different matter.

[Shaster]

 

Hi, My thinking is to use a Yorkville M810 for all the mixing and power. I haven't bought any equipment yet so this isn't set in stone. I only rented equipment for our last concert series and the M810 is what I got used to, but I am open to other thoughts.

 

 

I've used the M810 a number of times. For a box mixer it's pretty good. They're relatively easy to use. Once in a while I play a club that has two NX35's and a M1610. Pretty nice system for something at that price point.

 

Regarding your stage box, it will get stepped on spilled on and spat on (if you're hiring punk bands;)), so I would find a nice safe spot - wall mount or ???

 

You might also consider running the snake so that it can be moved outdoors or to another venue entirely.

 

Agedhorse mentioned codes and licences, which are quite important, but. somehow I think you would be hard pressed to do it legally, or at least disinclined to go that route, which brings up another point - house and liability insurance.

 

Personally I would try to find out how my insurance would work (liability and otherwise) if something were to go wrong, especially if you're flying under the radar. You don't necessarily have to talk to your insurance agent, but you should talk to somebody in the business (another company perhaps). You've got a great idea - I would hate to see you suffer because of it.

[6Imzadi]

Try this link. Mystery makes some good products. Including wall mount and outdoor.

[popgadget]

How about a cabinet in the wall cavity with a fairly large diameter (3" or so) PVC conduit run into the basement and back up into the mixer end of the room. Use sweeps and then you could use a regular snake, storing the stage box in the cabinet and still have the ability to pull it out to use elsewhere, just don't forget to pull a pull rope back through the conduit when you remove the snake. With a little creative staggering of the connectors on the fan end, it would be a pretty easy pull in and out.

[thinderik]

Just because no one has commented on this yet but.... GOD D#$N you and your wife are cool people. Those pictures are cool as hell! And that loft was sick! I wanna party with you guys. Canada like close to jersey Canada or like Vancouver?

 

Also I hope all renovations go swimingly. =)

 

Also popa's idea is the BOMB with the cabinet. I think you guys would be a lot happier if you could have the mixer back away form the stage and people didnt have to trip over cables.

[Dogoth]

 

Dustbunnies, liquids, bits and pieces of everything. Any floor boxes I have to use are deep theatrical type with hinged cover and slanted connector panel.

 

 

That's also the only kind of floor receptical I'd recommend If this room is also living space as well, they are kind of industrial for the middle of a living room.

 

You may want to consider a couple of wall mounted (and concealable) high current outlets (big twist locks - I'm not sure what they are called - they are like camlocks in one single outlet) and a portable distro box that could be used at either location.

[Consume]

 

How about a cabinet in the wall cavity with a fairly large diameter (3" or so) PVC conduit run into the basement and back up into the mixer end of the room. Use sweeps and then you could use a regular snake, storing the stage box in the cabinet and still have the ability to pull it out to use elsewhere, just don't forget to pull a pull rope back through the conduit when you remove the snake. With a little creative staggering of the connectors on the fan end, it would be a pretty easy pull in and out.

 

 

I was thinking of something along the same lines. For what it would cost to put in floor recpeticles and wire them, you could just buy a snake, build n in the wall cabinet or a small closet, and , use PVC pipe/couplers to drop down through the floor - hang hooks along the joists in the basement, and them come back up through a wall whereever the mixing station is going to be - and that could be inside a small closet/built in cabinet at the back of the room, so you could just close it up and nobody would even see it until a band was playing - you could actually build it with rack mounts so you could have a rackmounted mixer and a "recording station" there - sort of like a "mini-control room".

[agedhorse]

Note potential fire code issues with unprotected chases.