Members lespaul1964 Posted June 9, 2009 Members Share Posted June 9, 2009 I was never really satisfied with my Voiceworks so I stopped using it for some time. Last week I reconnected it and tweaked with it a little bit, I am not sure yet with what results, though I am getting this hum. It stops when I press bypass. Seems like a ground hum. I am going with a stereo cable out of the left balanced output on the unit. Do I need a balanced cable? Could that be the problem? Any ideas? Tks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 9, 2009 Members Share Posted June 9, 2009 Could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted June 9, 2009 Members Share Posted June 9, 2009 I was never really satisfied with my Voiceworks so I stopped using it for some time. Last week I reconnected it and tweaked with it a little bit, I am not sure yet with what results, though I am getting this hum. It stops when I press bypass. Seems like a ground hum. I am going with a stereo cable out of the left balanced output on the unit. Do I need a balanced cable? Could that be the problem? Any ideas? Tks. Either that or a ground loop. Are you using the editor software for the VoiceWorks? That opens up a whole new world to dial in all the parameters. There's also a Flash update for it that fixes a few bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2009 Either that or a ground loop.Are you using the editor software for the VoiceWorks? That opens up a whole new world to dial in all the parameters. There's also a Flash update for it that fixes a few bugs. No, I bought the unit two or three years ago and haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 9, 2009 Members Share Posted June 9, 2009 My first guess is that if it were a ground loop you'd have the same hum in bypass. Could be gain structure issues ... or it's just noisy. Digital gear likes to be driven hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2009 Any ideas on how I can address the gain structure issue? This unit is not very user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 10, 2009 Members Share Posted June 10, 2009 Agreed that hum should be in both bypass and regular modes. The Voiceworks is a pretty "hissy" unit, but never experienced a hum in several years of use. Hiss is fine for live, but can be noticeable when recording. The Voiceworks Plus has a better preamp and is much quieter overall. I have both and actually got one of the first VoiceLive2's last week. The VL2 blows away everything out there as far as feature set for the live performer. They took everything I didn't like about the original VL and the rack mount units and fixed them, but I digress. I'd first try resetting the unit to factory. If there's still a buzz update the firmware. If still a buzz then try adding harmonies to see if the buzz increases. Same with effects. Also, vary the lead voice volume and see if it goes away. Then tell TC-Helicon and/or a repair shop the symptoms and what makes it get worse or better. Another thought is the setup menu. The bypass mode has options to it. (studio and live I think). I'd check, but I'm in Boston on business through tomorrow. Toggle the bypass and mic input sensitivities and see if that makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 10, 2009 Thanks everyone. I think hissing is a better description than humming to what I am getting. I was playing around last night with the unit before I read abzurd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 10, 2009 Members Share Posted June 10, 2009 That sounds like you either have some significant global EQ going on or the Bypass mode is set to the option that makes the signal weaker (there are 2 settings, one is a strong signal and the other a weak one). My guess is it's the weak one and the lack of signal means lack of hiss as well. Oh wait a sec - CHECK THE COMPRESSION SETTINGS! (in the settings menu) If compression is on, turn it off and listen. The compression can be EXTREMELY noisy in that unit. The more extreme the noisier. This is because it's raising the noise floor as it boosts the signal (it must have some kind of make up gain built in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 Agreed that hum should be in both bypass and regular modes. The Voiceworks is a pretty "hissy" unit, but never experienced a hum in several years of use. Hiss is fine for live, but can be noticeable when recording. The Voiceworks Plus has a better preamp and is much quieter overall. I have both and actually got one of the first VoiceLive2's last week. The VL2 blows away everything out there as far as feature set for the live performer. They took everything I didn't like about the original VL and the rack mount units and fixed them, but I digress. Now I'm envious of your VL2. Please give a full report in a new thread after you've driven it a while. I'd be particularly interested in a comparison with the VoiceWorks Plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 No, I bought the unit two or three years ago and haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 11, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 I toyed around with it again yesterday. Worked the gain structure, mic sensitivity, compression and bypass signal (live or studio) and it still hisses. Maybe, and now I am not sure, a little less than before but I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 I toyed around with it again yesterday. Worked the gain structure, mic sensitivity, compression and bypass signal (live or studio) and it still hisses. Maybe, and now I am not sure, a little less than before but I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 11, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 Agreed. I can see the value of the editor, I am just not sure that it can solve my problem about setting the unit right and eliminate the hiss. I have tried everything to the best of my knowledge and following the steps recommended here. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 13, 2009 Members Share Posted June 13, 2009 Where do the input meters register when sending to the unit??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted June 13, 2009 Members Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've used both the VoiceWorks and VoiceWorks Plus. I did not notice any problem with excess noise on either of them. You started by describing a hum, then changed to hiss. Those are different things. Does it have a 60Hz hum component or not? Or is the noise spread through a wide frequency range? What happens when you disconnect the mic? Without changing any other settings, does the noise go away? Describe in detail the entire signal path from lips to ears, please, with all devices in use besides the VW rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2009 What I am getting now is definitely a hiss. I described inaccurately as a hum originally. Aged horse, I have played around with the gain structure quite a bit and settled with normal mic sensitivity and input level set so that the meter is in the 60/75% range, probably to the -10 reading (will double check next time I power up). But for sure no peaking or saturation. XML. I am using it in a rehearsal setting. Haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 Are you sure it's not a line level output? If you are using this as a mic preamp too, you must turn the gain of your mixer all the way down and set the output level of the VocalWorks to allow say -10dB below clip on the input channel. Also, are you using the internal blend/mix control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 On the Setup Menu, confirm the following settings: Byp.Mode: StudioMicSens: NormalOutLev: +4 dBu The EMX5000 mixer does not have an ideal channel input to handle a balanced line level input. It uses a single gain stage for mic and line levels, using a pad for line levels. That alone will raise the noise floor significantly. It would be far better to use a mixer with a balanced line input without a pad. It looks like the best inputs to use on the EMX5000 are the unbalanced stereo channel inputs ST CH IN, since they don't have a pad and are designed for line levels. You lose the mid sweepable EQ, but the VW has all the EQ you'll ever need for vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 The difference between a mic input with pad and true line input will only cost you a couple dB in noise penalty. Nothing dramatic assuming there's enough overload margin. I don't know how the VocalWorks handles phantom power present on it's output line driver though, might be worth confirming this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 While there may be ways to tame the hiss, the original Voiceworks is simply a noisier unit than the VoiceworkPlus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted June 14, 2009 Members Share Posted June 14, 2009 But I've used the original VoiceWorks in a studio with no obvious noise problem, so I'm inclined to believe the problem is something wrong with his unit or a problem with the gain structure along the path. I currently have the VW Plus. It does have the nicer Burr-Brown component pre-amp, but I didn't notice much difference in the noise level of the processing engine itself between the two. I didn't upgrade because of noise, it was because I got the VW Plus at the right price and I liked the additional features. I was happy with the VW while I had it, and I hate noise. I'm very sensitive to any noisy components in an otherwise quiet signal path. I've even gone back to use an original VW in another studio, after having spent quite a bit of time with my VW plus, and I didn't notice a noise problem with that VW either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 I had reahearsal last night for the first time this week. It was considerably less hissy. It looks like the gain structure theory was correct. This computer is at work and the VW is at home, so I cannot confirm exact settings, however, on my last settings the byp. mode is studio, the sensitivity is normal and if I recall correctly, the output is around 0. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lespaul1964 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Last word, gigged with it saturday night. For the first time, our SE had no issues with the unit. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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