Members Syyle Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am trying to wrap my head around this whole IEMs thing. I am a vocalist and am ready to take the next step to IEMs so that I can for once hear myself, and also stop doing damage to my ears from stage volume. What I currently have:-Impressions are made.-Shure SCL3 Headphones/Earbuds My question is, what else do I need? I know I need to send in my impressions with some headphones and have the custom molds made/fit onto my headphones. But, are these headphones good enough for what I am doing? Sound quality isn't CRUCIAL, but I don't want to spend all this $$$ on something if I am just going to end up replacing the headphones in 3 months. Now, from my research, I know I need a receiver, a transmitter, and...mixing console too...? This is what I need the most clarification on. I have no idea what to look for in a transmitter. Any help, would be greatly greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hi there! Let me just tell you a little about my switch to IEM's. I got a really good deal on a used Sennheiser SR3056. now, before you scour the used market, you probably won't find this unit for a good price, it's not a cheapo. but i digress... I use Shure E2c's. really nothing fancy. Call me crazy, but I'm really looking forward to trying my $14.99 Skull Candy headphones, because I bet they'll sound a bit better. I don't have custom molded in ears yet (will be a Birthday gift at next years NAMM show, from what I have been told by my wife) . I love my IEM's. I went from screaming, or singing ina hearsh way to maybe be able to hear myself ( I actually hate loud monitors, and it was killing my voice. I suppose I could have turned my wedge up, but I don't want to kill my hearing , since I also work doing sound). I instantly felt the improvement. I could SING, with real soul and inflection, without blowing out my voice. So, now to help you. Get the molds made for your speakers. Contact a few different companies. with the molds already made, you should be able to find a *reasonable* priceGo with a Sennheiser or Shure PSM 400, 600, 200 unit. As long as the frequency range is fine with the new restrictions from the digital TV switch, you'll be fine. You don't need your own mixer, unless you are looking for your own control of the mix. Have the sound engineer patch your unit into the monitor rig so you get a mix to yourself. IEM's are not for everyone, but I personally think they make a huge difference. and I can run around the bar like a mad-man and not miss a beat, and folks dig that.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SkyhighRocks Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I use the shure psm200 system and it's working out pretty well. I have the SCL3 buds as well and am waiting on my customs to come back that fit on these. Really curious to hear how much of a difference they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I just 5 AT M3 units. Really like IEM's as a soundguy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 Audio Technica's M2 or M3's are the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I use the Shure PSM200 with E5 earbuds. I also have custom molds. I got my molds at a place where I made the impression and sent it to them. They already had the specs for the earbuds so I didn't need to send mine, they just made them work for the buds I have. I believe the PSM 400 or 600 (one of them) is in the dreaded no man zone. The 200 is mono and the others are stereo capable. Mono is just fine for me. If it weren't for the in ears I would have to give up playing live because I damaged my hearing as a young rocker. The in ears allow me to hear everything at a volume that doesn't cause pain and saves my voice. You will need the receiver and transmitter and an aux on your board to send to the transmitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shovelhead Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I have a Shure PSM200 setup that I bought last year. I'm a convert for the forseeable future. I love the fact that I can hear everything I'm singing and playing on my guitar without having to depend on a soundman and monitor mix. I also love the fact that at the end of the night, I'm not decibel fatigued. I've been using SC2 earbuds with custom molds. I've decided to take the next step. I made an appointment yesterday to meet with the audiologist today. I'm getting a set of Westone ES2 custom dual driver monitors made. They're expensive, but I'm not going back to wedges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris K Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 So for a 4 piece band, can you use one Shure PSM 200 or AT M2 transmitter with 4 body packs? would everyone get the same mix? Also, do the earbuds take away from the crowd interaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moogieotter Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 Are IEM's better than just really good over the ear wireless headphones like Keith Moon used to wear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yes, one transmitter feeding four receivers will only offer one mix. The better systems allow for a referrence mic to be plugged into the receiver. This way you can adjust the amount of ambient sound you hear in the IEMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 Are IEM's better than just really good over the ear wireless headphones like Keith Moon used to wear? Yes. They offer more features such as built in limiting, which is essential to protect your ears from sudden spikes, diversity reception, multiple channels in case of interference, battery meters, "more me" type mixes, easier storage, and better stage appearance since they are so small. They also will generally seal out stage volume better, and can be fitted with custom ear molds. Sound quality might be similar with good earphones, but the similarity stops there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Syyle Posted June 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am looking to split a transmitter with my drummer, so he and I want to go in on a unit together. What is a dependable "low-cost" transmitter that comes with two receivers? Also, any recommendations for online vendors for custom molds? Bearing in mind I have the impressions and headphones already? Or should I make the big jump to a dual driver custom rig right off the bat? Thanks all for the great replies. I am feeling drastically more comfortable and knowledgeable on the setup. Also, if we don't invest in a monitor mixer, do we run the chance that a house system might not be able to utilize our IEM transmitter? Or do 99.99% of house systems have an output built for these IEM transmitters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shovelhead Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am looking to split a transmitter with my drummer, so he and I want to go in on a unit together. What is a dependable "low-cost" transmitter that comes with two receivers?Also, any recommendations for online vendors for custom molds? Bearing in mind I have the impressions and headphones already? Or should I make the big jump to a dual driver custom rig right off the bat?Thanks all for the great replies. I am feeling drastically more comfortable and knowledgeable on the setup.Also, if we don't invest in a monitor mixer, do we run the chance that a house system might not be able to utilize our IEM transmitter? Or do 99.99% of house systems have an output built for these IEM transmitters? Most systems have standard inputs, like a TRS or XLR input. You can take a monitor send right off of the console and plug it into the receiver. The Shure systems allow you to buy the receiver separately. This will allow you the flexibility of using only one transmitter with 2 receivers. I've had great luck with my Shure PSM200 setup, but it wasn't really 'cheap'. It runs about 600 with the buds and 1 receiver. It also has 2 inputs and 2 volume controls so that you can mix 2 sources. An example is a vocal and a house monitor mix. I use it for my vocal and my guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 AT's M2 with buds and one receiver can be had around $ 500.00 with additional receivers about $ 300.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 FWIW... I'm testing my wired IEM setup this weekend (at practice). Aux send > comp/limiter > headphone amp Since I already owned the limiter and amp, total cost to 'demo' IEMs is $77 for the Shure SCL2s I've been dying to try the IEMs, but definitely couldn't afford $500 to possibly find out it's not my thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 Yes. They offer more features such as built in limiting, which is essential to protect your ears from sudden spikes, diversity reception, multiple channels in case of interference, battery meters, "more me" type mixes, easier storage, and better stage appearance since they are so small. They also will generally seal out stage volume better, and can be fitted with custom ear molds.Sound quality might be similar with good earphones, but the similarity stops there. And you don't have to duct tape them to your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Syyle Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 FWIW...I'm testing my wired IEM setup this weekend (at practice).Aux send > comp/limiter > headphone ampSince I already owned the limiter and amp, total cost to 'demo' IEMs is $77 for the Shure SCL2sI've been dying to try the IEMs, but definitely couldn't afford $500 to possibly find out it's not my thing... Any testing results Jerry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrainChild Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 Our band just tried ears for 3 gigs with our drummer on wired Shure 5's and 3 of us using PSM400 with one E2, one E4, and one on Maudio 30 phones. We all had a variety of problems and the concensus was no one liked using them. Our playing was terrible for some reason. We went back to floors the last 2 shows and all was perfect. Luckily we were renting, but we were on the verge of spending $3K for our own sets. Hopefully you will enjoy them more than we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 Any testing results Jerry? Yes, and I'm sorry to say the results were similar to Brainchild... Here's my take: 1) We used some of the cheaper Shures with the universal earpieces.- The fidelity was fine (though these are only single drivers)- The fit was fine, attenuation was good (not super-comfortable physically) 2) The wired setup worked out fine (at least for testing)- Volume was good- Sound was clear- Was able to customize the mix as needed Bottom line (for now) - I didn't like 'em and here's why:1) Having something crammed in my ears isn't comfortable, period. 2) Singing with something crammed in my ears isn't comfortable (NOTE: I also have some custom Westone musicians earplugs (-15db) - I hate singing with these in also. My audiologist says that the idea that custom molds help with the occlusion effect is essentially BS, and I agree 100%) 3) Having to create a good sounding mix takes time and effort - In the practice space with some wedges, everything sounds great, natural, balanced. The quickie mix in the IEM sounded like a quickie mix (unnatural, unbalanced) Three of us (guitar, bass, drums - we all sing) were popping them in and out all night long, tweaking here and there, and trying to really get them to work... Our drummer was THRILLED with them for about three songs, but after that they ended up on the floor. If I had: the time to spend getting a great mix, a full-time monitor engineer, money for super-comfortable high-end earpieces, I'd be more willing to work at using these. But at this point, the pros don't outweigh the cons... Most important for me - They did lessen the enjoyment of playing considerably... Please keep in mind, this is IMO, YMMV, etc. I do plan to keep messing around with the IEM concept, because the advantages are significant and numerous - finding a way around the disadvantages is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 I send two different mixes to IEM's. I have one bandmix that is a postfade send of every instrument going through the PA. It is effectively like sending FOH minus the stage volume (recognizing that loud stage signals make weak PA signals, and vice-versa.) This is one channel of a mono mix. The other channel is dictated by the performer -> what he/she wants to hear well. Ex: a singing guitar player gets their vocals and guitar. The IEM balance knob on the receiver lets the player mix HIS/HER signals with the band mix to determine how they "sit" in the overall IEM experience. The band mix also has so many mics in it that some ambient gets through. This has been an improvement over discrete mixes for the bands I work with. The biggest issue I see is when GuitarGod wants the IEM to sound like a Marshall 100 watt full stack IN THE IEMS (that same volume and pants-blowing feel.) You have to accept that you ARE using the IEMS to reduce volume, not just change where it comes from. THE IEM SHOULD NOT BE AS LOUD AS THE INSTRUMENT WOULD BE IF YOU DIDN'T WEAR THEM. Once you accept that, and get used to the lower volume, things tend to smooth out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'll also add that vocalists and drummers sharing a mix will probably render both of you unhappy.I mix my in-ears with very little lead vocal and lots of guitar and kick drum. I can usually feel the bass.Singers need "More me" than anything else. If you both compromise too much neither will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 We love ours. The comfortable fit comes from custom molds. I can leave mine in all night without any discomfort at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skibob Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 I've been using them for a few years and there is no way in hell I will go back to wedges. Having said that, they do take some getting used to as far as having something stuck in your ears. And the sound is not the same as you would get from wedges, since there isn't much bleed from everything else. I found singing with them was the hardest thing to get used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Bear in mind that anything wireless will compress your signal somewhat so dynamics will be off as far as what you hear. Also, I believe anything below 100hz gets attenuated. I just attended a big conference with a guy named Russel Fragar who for those of you who know is the guy who led Hillsong from 1989 till 2001 when he moved to the US. He, and the other similarly experienced artists present were pretty much universal in their distaste for IEM's. His exact quote was "Sound guys love em but the music really suffers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 His exact quote was "Sound guys love em but the music really suffers" Most big touring shows are all in-ear now. I would not say that the music suffers. It's a different way of performing and you need to get used to it. There are definitely some old-school types who are too set in their ways to change.The tradeoff in clean sound and hearing protection make it a no-brainer for me. I can hear the other guys in my band so clearly that it absolutely helps my performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.