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  • Stadium sound

    Hi folks,
    Just got a call from our manager to say we're doing a gig for a team homecoming after a very big game on monday 2 weeks. It's an Irish rebel band that I do sound for. Some of you might remember some live tracks I recorded and posted on here.
    It's on in the local stadium here (cap. 40,000) and we're expecting between 10,000 and 30,000 fans to show up (depending on the previous day's result!). I'm happy enough with the stage logistics (we did a 1,000 head indoor show a couple of months back thru a 20k rig, good FOH, no stage feedback) and we'll rent a couple of hand held radio mics for the MC and the team arrival, speeches etc.
    I know there are plenty of experienced heads on here and I'm wondering on recommendations for PA? Size and layout? The rental company we used for that 1000 header are really easy to work with and I basically plugged in our gear and did my usual sound for that one, size wasn't a problem. I guess I have 2 questions, tho I'll add more probably as I think of them!

    1. How big a PA will we likely need for this size of a venue? Bearing in mind that about half of the crowd will be on the pitch and we won't need to throw sound to the stand at the opposite end from the stage, it will be empty. Also, the pitch is about 1+1/3 to 1+1/2 the size of your standard American Football pitch

    2. Is it advisable/necessary/important to run a distance compensated delay through, say a 5k rig about halfway back?

    Many thanks in advance for any advice you can give me,
    ad
    flip the phase

  • #2
    The answer depends of the quality and output you expect from the system. If you expect the quality of the Rolling Stones system ... then you'll need the Rolling Stones system.

    As far as delay towers ... generally needed every 30 - 45 meters. It depends on the pattern control of your speakers. And yes they need to have delay added!
    Don Boomer

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    • #3
      The answer depends of the quality and output you expect from the system. If you expect the quality of the Rolling Stones system ... then you'll need the Rolling Stones system.

      As far as delay towers ... generally needed every 30 - 45 meters. It depends on the pattern control of your speakers. And yes they need to have delay added!


      Well I expect to get at least the quality of the Deltamax system we use for regular shows. Also, I thought it was clear from my post that I understand what a delay tower is and how it works.

      I guess I better boil it down a bit to get some replies:-

      1. How much FOH wattage will we need to cover the crowd?

      2. Depending on the system being used, are delay towers 100% necessary? i.e if we end up daisy chaining 3 identical 10k rigs with, say, 8 regular Deltamax style tops and 4 bins for the main FOH, would it be more or less necessary to use delay towers with this system than with a 30k line array FOH. (30k is just a number out of my head)

      If we need to run a delay tower, I'll probably feed a matrix output from the desk (Soundcraft GB2) thru a delay to our own PA positioned directly behind the mix booth, 40-50 yards from the stage
      flip the phase

      Comment


      • #4
        I did this kind of gig as a bass player several times. Always seen the guys bring something between 50 and 70.000W for FOH. A total of 40 2x18 or 2x15 subs (24 in the ground and 16 lifted) plus the same amount of some good full range speakers should suffice...
        <div class="signaturecontainer">YMMV.<br />
        <br />
        Release your inner DJ... then you will begin to see. <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/icon_lol.gif" border="0" alt="" title="lol" class="inlineimg" /></div>

        Comment


        • #5
          This question might be better answered over on PSW. Get the info from the people that run some of the systems you see at stadium gigs.

          Comment


          • #6
            This question might be better answered over on PSW. Get the info from the people that run some of the systems you see at stadium gigs.



            What's PSW?
            flip the phase

            Comment


            • #7
              What's PSW?


              He's talking about this
              <div class="signaturecontainer">YMMV.<br />
              <br />
              Release your inner DJ... then you will begin to see. <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/icon_lol.gif" border="0" alt="" title="lol" class="inlineimg" /></div>

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm guessing you don't understand delay towers. It doesn't matter how big a system you have ... what matters is the pattern control. Even then high frequencies fall naturally with distance through air. Are they 100% necessary ... of course not. Will it help at distances of over 100 fett ... definitely. How good do you want?

                As far as how much power? That question is incomplete without listing the speakers and their configuration. The last system I did for outdoor 10k-15k people had almost 300,000 watts available.
                Don Boomer

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm guessing you don't understand delay towers. It doesn't matter how big a system you have ... what matters is the pattern control. Even then high frequencies fall naturally with distance through air. Are they 100% necessary ... of course not. Will it help at distances of over 100 fett ... definitely. How good do you want?

                  As far as how much power? That question is incomplete without listing the speakers and their configuration. The last system I did for outdoor 10k-15k people had almost 300,000 watts available.


                  Ok, I'll rephrase it again.

                  A stereo line array will have a different pattern to a horizontal or pyramid array of standard tops. With which of these configurations is it more necessary to employ a delay tower?
                  flip the phase

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok, I'll rephrase it again.

                    A stereo line array will have a different pattern to a horizontal or pyramid array of standard tops. With which of these configurations is it more necessary to employ a delay tower?


                    What are you talking about here? Conventional arrays w/ delay towers vs line arrays?

                    I don't know what you're asking, could you reiterate?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What are you talking about here? Conventional arrays w/ delay towers vs line arrays?

                      I don't know what you're asking, could you reiterate?



                      See previous post to yours
                      flip the phase

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Short answer is no, delay towers aren't "absolutely necessary".

                        So, necessary to use delay towers with conventional arrays vs with line arrays?

                        Both and neither. I use delay towers to re-iterate the high end at great distances. Line arrays by nature throw sound incredible distances, and a properly configured and tuned conventional array will do so just as well... in both cases, the mid and high frequencies get blurred because they're travelling great distances through the air. The low end is fine but the high end just needs some clarity.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          . With which of these configurations is it more necessary to employ a delay tower?


                          It doesn't matter how you get your pattern ... it just matters what the pattern is. It is advisable to employ delay stacks when your audience gats farther away than your speaker will cover. That distance is directly related to pattern control.

                          This is all academic anyway because you will need to provide coverage based of the shape of your audience.

                          I'm not sure what you think you are asking. So in the big general terms in which you have asked ... it's better to do it better than to do it not as well.

                          More power is always better than less, proper pattern is better than improper pattern, properly adjusted delays are generally desired any time you try to throw 100 feet and almost automatic if you need to throw 150 feet with almost any speakers commonly available. There are some extreme long throw specialty speakers available but I doubt you'd ever have access to them. Eveb then they all get worse with distance.
                          Don Boomer

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It doesn't matter how you get your pattern ... it just matters what the pattern is. It is advisable to employ delay stacks when your audience gats farther away than your speaker will cover. That distance is directly related to pattern control.

                            This is all academic anyway because you will need to provide coverage based of the shape of your audience.

                            I'm not sure what you think you are asking. So in the big general terms in which you have asked ... it's better to do it better than to do it not as well.

                            More power is always better than less, proper pattern is better than improper pattern, properly adjusted delays are generally desired any time you try to throw 100 feet and almost automatic if you need to throw 150 feet with almost any speakers commonly available. There are some extreme long throw specialty speakers available but I doubt you'd ever have access to them. Eveb then they all get worse with distance.


                            Thanks, it should be a pretty standard horizontal or line array, as above I'm waiting for the hire company to get back to us. So you're saying, whatever the system, once your trying to achieve coverage at over 100-150 feet from the main array, a delay tower is a good idea?
                            flip the phase

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Short answer is no, delay towers aren't "absolutely necessary".

                              So, necessary to use delay towers with conventional arrays vs with line arrays?

                              Both and neither. I use delay towers to re-iterate the high end at great distances. Line arrays by nature throw sound incredible distances, and a properly configured and tuned conventional array will do so just as well... in both cases, the mid and high frequencies get blurred because they're travelling great distances through the air. The low end is fine but the high end just needs some clarity.


                              Thanks for that. I'm still waiting for the hire company to get back to us with what they'll have as FOH for us.
                              It should be easy enough to take a matrix feed from the desk and route it thru a delay unit (tuned for distance) to 2 or 4 of our Deltamax tops and set the tops up right behind the mix booth. Is this a good idea or is there maybe something else I'm missing out here?

                              Also, another poster mentioned 300,000 watts of power for FOH. What do you reckon yourself? That sounds like overkill to me..
                              flip the phase

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