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  • Live Sound Setup Suggestions

    I am planning on buying a Behringer XENYX XL1600 mixer, very soon. This is a 16ch mixer with inserts on each input channel, inserts on each of the four subgroups and inserts on the main stereo outs.

    I currently have an stereo compressor/limiter that has a single set of controls for both channels.

    We also have a dual-channel compressor/limiter with distinct channel controls.

    Finally, we are using a pair of Behringer 15" powered speakers, for the FOH speakers. (No subs yet.) In addition, we will have two Behringer 12" powered speakers for stage monitors.

    I plan on purchasing two stereo 31-band EQs (one for mains and one for monitors).

    I may also get a four-channel compressor/limiter based on the advice for my questions, below.

    Our band lineup is:
    3 vocal mics (1 female, 2 male)
    1 keyboard submix coming from a Behringer keyboard mixer/amplifier
    1 guitar coming from a Digitech GSP-1101
    1 guitar either from a line-out or mic
    1 drum submix from an external mixer
    1 bass guitar

    My ultimate goal is to make sure we have a good mix and that the other members don't blow my speakers.

    Here are my questions:

    1. How many compression channels will I need? Do I need a single compression channel for each vocal or just one for the vocal subgroup? How will backup vocals be affected by a powerful lead vocal, if the vocal subgroup is compressed, rather than each vocal channel?

    2. I need to even out the keyboardist's volume. The same goes for the bassist when some notes are very boomy and some notes are barely audible. Should these be compressed, individually or with the main mix?

    3. How do I decide when to compress a single channel rather than a subgroup or the entire mix?

    4. Where do I place the EQs, in the signal chain? Do I add the EQ to the main mix's insert path, or do I run from the mixer's outputs to the EQ? What is the difference between the two methods? (I don't have a choice with the two monitor mixes because they do not have an insert path.)

    My accountant (wife) has given me permission to spend a bit of money ($1000-$1500) on this setup, but I want to do it as correct as possible. I plan on sticking to Behringer products because I like them and they are reasonably-priced.

    Thanks for any suggestions you can provide regarding our band lineup and mixing goals.

    mike

  • #2
    I dont suggest compressing the whole mix. Use compression sparingly but focused on where it is needed. I've seen bass and kick compressed most often. Compressing vocals might mean less GBF. Be careful with that. We don't use any compression at all. Also, don't confuse compression with gates and limiting.

    Place the EQs just before the mains and monitors. Run out from the board into the EQ then into the speakers. Keep your setup simple until you get more comfortable with it.
    "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson

    Band promo shots on railroad tracks were cool in 1981...

    Comment


    • #3
      The Bass player should be running some sort of compression or limiting in his rig. I've never seen one who didn't suck not have good control of his dynamics. OTOH keyboardists are notorious for being 12+db from one patch to another - I wouldn't want to try to fix that with compression as some patches sound like arse compressed (swelling horns for instance). You kinda gotta keep an eye on him and solo the channel if you can't hear anything but it looks like he's playing . Unfortunately the MixWiz I'm using doesn't have a meter bridge like my own board as that makes it a lot easier to keep an eye on the keyboardist's playing. Hmm... Maybe I'll connect his channel's direct out to some crap piece of rack gear that has a VU meter on it ?

      "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

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      • #4
        Thanks, everyone. These are some very good suggestions.

        mike

        Comment


        • #5
          I am kind of a gadget guy myself. My rig has nothinging in it besides two EQ's and an outboard reverb. I thought about getting a bunch of processing but my system sounds great without it. I figure in my inexperienced hands, it would be more trouble to get into.

          I just did a band, 2 vocal mics, 7 mics on the drum kit, keys, two guitars and bass. All miced up and fantastic sound. I use all good mics and an Allen and Heath board. QSC amps and EV speakers. Compression is on the back burner for me, I need some better monitors and a good kick mic more.
          Uhhhhhh the "Money for Nothing" program was such a huge success we ran out of money. Uhhhh but don't worry, we're gonna uhhhhhh print more money and extend the program.

          Comment


          • #6
            TheDoctor Mo, I dont want to be the first to bash Behringer and this has nothing to do with any of your questions, But I would like to offer some friendly advice, think hard before buying that behringer board. I know the behringer stuff is priced reasonably, but for a reason. I started with some behringer stuff and now I have none, the reason, its good for a couple of years or 3,then chunk it.I know that some of their older stuff is still in use,but the new is not good. You can get a Yamaha board 16ch 4 bus cheaper than the behringer, I do not represent Yamaha or any other manufacture. I'm just trying to offer some advice that will actually save you some money in the near future.


            Compression, I only run a compressor on whatever needs compression, in our band its the Kick&Snare around 4:1 and a mild mild compression 2:1 on all the vocals just to smooth and tighten a little. I would not do it on the whole mix.

            Comment


            • #7
              You can get a Yamaha board 16ch 4 bus cheaper than the behringer.


              Scott,

              Show me a Yamaha 16x4x2 mixer, with four monitor/aux sends and two effects sends, for less than $500, and I will seriously consider it. What is the model number?

              Or, as far as that goes, I'd like the model number of any other brand of mixer, that has these features for that price.

              So far, the XENYX XL1600 is the only mixer I have found with the features I am wanting.

              Personally, I have never met a single soul who has had a problem with Behringer products.

              Also, thanks for the advice on the compression. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

              mike

              Comment


              • #8
                That POS behringer board actually only has 12 mic inputs. They may call it a 16 only because the people that buy these boards can't count. But if it works for you what do I care.

                Comment


                • #9
                  @modulsman

                  First, because I intend on buying a Behringer product, you assume I can't count or understand the specs of the mixer.

                  Then, you state that you don't care about this issue.

                  So, why the f*ck did you waste everyone's time with your worthless post?

                  You added absolutely no value to this thread, other than the fact that your own prejudice and lack of social skills designate you as a classic troll.

                  From now on, please stay out of my threads.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    @modulsman

                    First, because I intend on buying a Behringer product, you assume I can't count or understand the specs of the mixer.

                    Then, you state that you don't care about this issue.

                    So, why the f*ck did you waste everyone's time with your worthless post?

                    You added absolutely no value to this thread, other than the fact that your own prejudice and lack of social skills designate you as a classic troll.

                    From now on, please stay out of my threads.
                    Well do a search on this forum Newbie and you will find that Behringer gets no love at all. BYE I am sure your band will sound excellent.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That POS behringer board actually only has 12 mic inputs. They may call it a 16 only because the people that buy these boards can't count. But if it works for you what do I care.
                      Well, lots of manufacturers are playing that game nowadays . The XL2400 has 16 mic inputs plus 4 stereo channels - I'd get that instead if I was looking at this series of mixers. BTW the Midas Venice the XL is a clone of also numbers their channels this way - must be a POS too?

                      http://www.midasconsoles.com/venice.php

                      "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well do a search on this forum Newbie and you will find that Behringer gets no love at all.
                        Don't know what forum you all are on but here many if their higher end products work fine for those that don't abuse them. My DDX3216 is actually out on rent to a sound company that does 2500+ events until his iLive comes in (he had to sell his Roland M400 to pay for it and got stuck with nothing for a few weeks). Many people prefer the DCX2496 over the Driverack. Lots of folks using the ADA8000 analog to/from ADAT box to expand their Yamaha digital mixers. Main problem with Behringer is that it is so inexpensive people are too cheap to buy cases for it and they end up getting banged around WAY more than the higher prices stuff. Heck, I even have one of their two mic input mixers that I have a case for .

                        "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have to admit, the ADA8000 is a pretty good unit. No real love for anything else Behringer, though. If Presonus or someone comes up with a unit with the same specs as the ADA8000, I would dump it in a heartbeat. Not because I don't like the ADA8000, more because I dislike Uli's ethics and business model.
                          "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson

                          Band promo shots on railroad tracks were cool in 1981...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If Presonus or someone comes up with a unit with the same specs as the ADA8000, I would dump it in a heartbeat.
                            What "spec" don't you like about the PreSonus DigiMAX FS? Maybe the price?

                            "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, lots of manufacturers are playing that game nowadays . The XL2400 has 16 mic inputs plus 4 stereo channels - I'd get that instead if I was looking at this series of mixers. BTW the Midas Venice the XL is a clone of also numbers their channels this way - must be a POS too?

                              http://www.midasconsoles.com/venice.php
                              No it is not a POS. It would also be accepted on some mid-level riders. The Blowinger won't.

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