Members zelmobeaty Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 My daughter Elisa has started to sit in on some gigs with my acoustic duo. I use a Shure Beta 58 mic and my partner uses a standard Shure SM58. Elisa is a alto and her voice is sweet and soft. I want to buy her a mic that will do her justice - I just can't seem to get enough out of the Shure mics we have. My budget is $100.00. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rwhealey Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 You should probably go out and try a few - mics seem to be a personal thing. A lot of people here like the EV N/D767, Audix OM, and the Heil mics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 What do you mean by "can't get enough out of"? Those are both quality mics. If they are working for both of you but you can't get at least acceptable performance out of them for her, my first thought is it's not the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nbaldwin Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 I second the EV n/d767a. It's supercardioid, pretty powerful, and produces very clear, non-muddy vocals, especially in the mid to high vocal range. You may need to do a little shopping to get it at $100, but I bet you can find it somewhere on the internet. Good luck and let us know what you buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zelmobeaty Posted August 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 What do you mean by "can't get enough out of"? Those are both quality mics. If they are working for both of you but you can't get at least acceptable performance out of them for her, my first thought is it's not the gear. Her voice is very soft compared to mine. And she was trained in High School to sing off the mic - where I get right on it. So it seems that when I give her enough gain on the mixer, the monitors are right on the edge of feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcastar Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Maybe look into Sennheiser's ?? The e838 is a GREAT sounding mic and rejects a LOT of unwanted noise. And she was trained in High School to sing off the mic - where I get right on it. Sounds like she needs to be retrained. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Sennheiser-e838-Dynamic-Microphone-104600853-i1324590.gc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Her voice is very soft compared to mine. And she was trained in High School to sing off the mic - where I get right on it. So it seems that when I give her enough gain on the mixer, the monitors are right on the edge of feedback. Teach her to sing on the mic. Or make sure the level through the wedge is sufficiently low to eliminate feedback. Keep the mains well out in front of her mic. Try IEM's for her if the feedback is only the monitors. Soft singers that stay off the mic are a pain, especially in rock bands. Their voice is sometimes quieter than the drums and amps that are on stage. So, if it is an issue in monitors only, get her IEM's, if she is getting feedback through the mains, get her to sing right on the grill, or run the PA to feedback on her channel, back it off a bit, then turn everything else down to compensate. I don't think a mic will help you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zelmobeaty Posted August 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Teach her to sing on the mic. Or make sure the level through the wedge is sufficiently low to eliminate feedback. Keep the mains well out in front of her mic. Try IEM's for her if the feedback is only the monitors. Soft singers that stay off the mic are a pain, especially in rock bands. Their voice is sometimes quieter than the drums and amps that are on stage.So, if it is an issue in monitors only, get her IEM's, if she is getting feedback through the mains, get her to sing right on the grill, or run the PA to feedback on her channel, back it off a bit, then turn everything else down to compensate. I don't think a mic will help you here. Thanks. It's not a rock band - so there are no amps or drums. Just guitar and harmonica. I'm thinking supercardoid is not so good for people who sing off the mic? She's usually about 4 inches back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Thanks. It's not a rock band - so there are no amps or drums. Just guitar and harmonica.I'm thinking supercardoid is not so good for people who sing off the mic? She's usually about 4 inches back. The mic isn't the problem. She's too far off of it. Get her to sing right up on the mic and stick with the Shures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zelmobeaty Posted August 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 The mic isn't the problem. She's too far off of it. Get her to sing right up on the mic and stick with the Shures. Yes - I think I'll go a few more bucks and get her a Beta 58. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 She's usually about 4 inches back. Decreasing that distance by half would make a dramatic difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ricky Chao Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Thanks. It's not a rock band - so there are no amps or drums. Just guitar and harmonica.I'm thinking supercardoid is not so good for people who sing off the mic? She's usually about 4 inches back. Supercardioid is not so good for people who sing off the mic??True, what's also true is.. . NO type of mic is good for people who sing OFF the mic. At first I didn't understand why the SM58 or the Beta 58a(which I'm truly in love with) would do the job until I read that. Problem's definitely not in the mic. If you wanted to, you could get a condenser mic, but that would be a risk if you're using it on stage, and it wouldn't be within your budget. And most importantly, it still wouldn't be an improvement if she's singing off the mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes - I think I'll go a few more bucks and get her a Beta 58. Thanks everyone. I really dig a Beta 57A for vocals, specially female vocals. Give one a try, it's $20 cheaper than a Beta 58A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allexcosta Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm thinking supercardoid is not so good for people who sing off the mic? She's usually about 4 inches back. No problems with the mics you have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 As above - sing right into the mic (Beta 58.... would be fine) and easy on the lipstick. Cleaning the grills can be a hassle:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zelmobeaty Posted August 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Thanks everyone. I think I will be aggresive in training her mic technique (and explaining to her why it's important, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes - I think I'll go a few more bucks and get her a Beta 58.Thanks everyone. Depends - Have her try out the one you have currently and see if the proximity effect (exaggerated bass as you sing right on it) makes her voice better or worse. A mic with proximity effect can be used more like an instrument to change the tone, but it can also do it randomly (if that's what the singer is doing). Bottom line, if you want a mic that stays more or less "the same" as far as tone goes, no matter how far you are away from it, the Beta 58A isn't that mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted September 2, 2009 Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 The loudest sound at the mic wins. If that ain't her, there's nothing to be done. Something can be loudest thing at the mic yet not be enough louder than everything else to give a usable result. A friend has the best voice I've ever heard, and to listen to her tone you'd think she was powerful. Nope - it takes about 10dB more gain to get her as loud as the guys. It takes a lot of EQ work to make a gig happen with her, and she's seldom more than 2" off the mic. Tell your daughter to get right on it. Hound her relentlessly about this. You may eventually get her down to 2" or better, which might give her a fighting chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zelmobeaty Posted September 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks again everyone. Elisa and I usually rehearse the songs and then record them through a nice CAD condenser mic. In that case - 4" off the mic works very well. I need to school her on using different technique live - no more than 2" off the mic. I'm thinking if I buy her own mic, she will be confident getting close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted September 2, 2009 Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 I really dig a Beta 57A for vocals, specially female vocals. Give one a try, it's $20 cheaper than a Beta 58A. +1 for the Beta 57. Almost sounds like a condenser (nice clean high end) and has great rejection specs. I would also add that I agree with many of the other posters about singing more on the mic. I've had my kid given wrong information at school before - I have no problem setting her straight. You do this professionaly all of the time so you know more about it than the teachers (you don't need to berate teach, just make her understand who knows what and why). I heard my daughter's choir teacher sing (Ouch!!). Even though she's knowledgable about music (and a very nice person), she wouldn't cut it for a second in the real world of musicians (that's probably why she teaches huh?). FWIW I did have a music teacher in high school who was a bonafied big band orchestra conducter and killer sax player so this isn't to stereotype teachers....... But I digress. Ask her to sing closer to the mic. It'll work a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted September 2, 2009 Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 Also not knocking teachers (married to one) and I disagree completely with your daughters instruction to stay off the mic... but I can understand the teacher's logic regarding this... Have you ever seen kids exposed to some new form of technology for the first time?!? Holy cow, one of those "ring bell for service" things suddenly become a full on drum circle to a 10 year old kid... and the same kid faced with the possibility of playing with the proximity effect of most cheap mics you find in schools?!?... there's not enough Excedrin in the world. I'D do everything in my power to restrict that behavior as well! Can't blame them for trying, but it's still improper technique. >Rant off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayak Posted September 2, 2009 Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 http://cgi.ebay.com/ElectroVoice-ND767A-SuperCardioid-Lead-Vocal-Microphone_W0QQitemZ270450189380QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef8166444&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShiftChange564 Posted September 6, 2009 Members Share Posted September 6, 2009 I agree with almost everyone here that she needs to be more on the mic for live vocals, in a studio situation being off the mic a little is not nearly as big of a deal. But when you are on stage in a live situation as said before loudest at the mic wins. Any of those mics you already have should work just fine. I tend to find the sennheiser 835 to have a little more mid presence than the shure 58s IMO. In the same price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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