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Upgrade path from Mackie 808S & 2 Peavey SP5


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After a couple of years off, I'm starting up (once again) a 4 piece rock cover band...2 guitars, bass, and drums. We play classic rock, new rock, and some country. We'll play small clubs mostly but an occasional larger gig could come up.

 

For years we've played through a Mackie 808S and 2 Peavey SP5 speakers on stands. The Mackie powers everything....2 mains and 2 monitors. Honestly, the system has worked for us....or should I say, it's got the job done. After spending some time on this forum, it would appear that the 808S is underpowered for the SP5's (400 watt RMS)

 

With this band, I'd like to upgrade the system but leverage what we have now to upgrade over time. I've got about $2,000 for now until we play enough gigs to pay that off. I will say that I'd rather buy quality and less components, than less quality and more components.

 

I figure I'll relegate the 808 to monitor duty only. Eventually I'd like to experiment with IEM's. I'm also assuming that I can use the SP5's for now...but maybe upgrade those later. However, maybe I'm better off selling them and going with powered mains. At this point I'm looking for recommendations.

 

My first purchase will more than likely be a MixWizard 3 16:2 mixer. I found one for $650 so that leaves about $1350.

 

So, perhaps a single sub (powered?) and an amp to power the SP5s? Or would I be better off selling the SP5's and getting 2 powered mains?

 

How would you upgrade what I have? What sub(s) would you get? etc....

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Jump on that MixWiz!!! That is an excellent deal.I would go with a QSC GX-5,2-JBL MRx 515s to start with.Later I would probably get another GX-5,and a pair of MRX 518 subs,but there are all sorts of options , and deals out there to be had.Good luck,and happy hunting!

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Jump on that MixWiz!!! That is an excellent deal.I would go with a QSC GX-5,2-JBL MRx 515s to start with.Later I would probably get another GX-5,and a pair of MRX 518 subs,but there are all sorts of options , and deals out there to be had.Good luck,and happy hunting!

 

Hey thanks for the reply! Yeah, I'm pretty fired up about the mixer.

 

So, you'd dump the SP5's that I have in favor of the MRX515s instead of purchasing subs to go with the SP5's first? Can you elaborate on that? Honestly, I was thinking of getting subs first but if the SP5's are that inferior, then I can see where that would make sense.

 

I've also read on this forum where a lot of guys like 12s better for the tops which I found interesting. If paired with 18's I suppose it's a cleaner sound.

 

Thanks again for your help! I REALLY appreciate it.

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What does everything think about staying with the SP5's and getting a single powered sub (PRX518s)? That still leaves me a bit for an amp for the existing tops.

 

Is having a single 18 strange? Will it just nag at me to get another?

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Assuming you have enough channels on the mixer now, you'd be a LOT better off just buying a couple powered subs (and a crossover if the subs do not have high passed line outs). Two ~500w powered subs will almost triple your available PA power and be a reasonable match to the two SP5's powered from one channel of the 808S.

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Sorry. I kinda misread the OP.We were talking about SP2s on here not long ago,and I was considering SP3s myself,but with $1300.00 I would probably get one MRX 528 (dual 18 passive sub),and an amp.If buying new,Iwould probably still get a GX-5.I ran mine last night with one sub (dual 18s at 4 ohms) on one side,and 2 Yamaha club series 15 wedges on the other.Used the built in crossover,and my Mixwiz.I was surprized how clean everything was just off that amp.It does 700 watts a side at 4 ohms.You could get those items and come in under budget,and have a kickass sub,and a nice amp that can be used to amplify anything.Down the road that versatility is priceless!!!Also,if going with a single sub I wouldn't go with a single driver box.Just my opinion!!!

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I say if the SP5/808 is working for you then you need a couple of Peavey SP118 subs and a QSC GX5 to power them. And a crossover too. Keep pushing the SP5's with the 808 and use the GX5 for the SP118's one on each channel crossed around 100 Hz. The subs will take the load off the SP5's and you won't need any more power for them.

 

Of course you could get one or two SP118's and use the GX5's internal 100Hz. crossover and run subs on channel one and the SP5's on channel two and you won't have to buy a crossover.

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Will the QSC GX5 be enough amp for the the SP5 speakers?

 

The SP5 is 400 watts RMS / 800 watts Program @ 8 Ohms.

 

The QSC GX5 is 250 watts RMS / 500 watts Program @ 8 Ohms.

 

From what I've read on this forum, we want power to be 1 to 2 times RMS with 1.5 being ideal, right? If so, then I need an amp that's 400 to 800 watts RMS @ 8 Ohms shooting for 600 watts.

 

It seems the RMX 2450 might be a better match...albeit more expensive. 450 watts RMS @ 8 ohms.

 

I'm still learning so please forgive me if I'm way off here.

 

Thanks again!

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I think you may want to double check the specs on that GX-5,but the RMX 2450 is also a great amp.I like my GX,but the 2450 is probably a "better" amp.What is the impedance of those SP5s?

 

 

Thanks! I checked the specs and it doesn't specifically say if it's RMS or Program. However, I found this in the description...

 

 

GX amplifiers deliver just the right amount of power to the most popular speakers used by entertainers. Most loudspeaker manufacturers recommend an amplifier with power output equal to the speaker's "Program (Music) Power" rating or two times (2 x) the "Continuous (RMS) Power" rating.

 

 

 

The GX3 is ideal for speakers in the 300 watt (Program) range, while the GX5 provides full performance for 500 watt (Program) speakers. Both models supply maximum possible power to 4 ohm and 8 ohm loads.

 

 

Does this suggest that the GX5 must be 250 RMS (500 Program), particularly if going by the advice from the 1st paragraph?

 

If this is correct, it just irritates me that QSC provides different watt types (RMS vs Program) for different brand of amps in their specs.

 

Thanks again for the reply.

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I think you may want to double check the specs on that GX-5,but the RMX 2450 is also a great amp.I like my GX,but the 2450 is probably a "better" amp.What is the impedance of those SP5s?

 

 

The impedance is 8 Ohms.

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Man,I gotta check my manual.I really thought the GX-5 was 500 rms at 8 ohms,and the GX-3 was 300 rms at 8 ohms.(700,and 500 at 4 ohms).With the SP5s being 8 ohm boxes,you can run two off one side of a GX series amp.That much I do know!!! Lol

 

It may very well be 500 rms at 8 ohms, but I couldn't find out positively from the specs because it just says "500". The manual is here -> http://media.qscaudio.com/pdfs/Specifications/GX_spec.pdf.

 

But they do recommend a 500 watt (Program) speaker for the GX5.

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Wow! It does read kinda vague,but I just never considered that QSC would play that game.Being "old school" I've always just went by RMS ratings,and anything else is just horse{censored} to me.All I can tell you without a doubt is that my GX-5 is powerful enough to drive my tops(1 on each side),and this weekend I ran a 4 ohm sub on one side,and 2 tops off the other,and had plenty of power for any small to medium club.Anything bigger than,say 100 peeps,and I would use both subs,and the amp I have for them.FWIW

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BTW, I did buy the MixWiz3 16:2 for $650. I checked it all out and the only thing different from one NIB was a little dust! I'm really happy with this purchase.

 

So now that leaves me $1350 (Ok, I'll round up to $1,500) for additional equipment.

 

Inventory so far....

 

1 MixWiz3 16:2

1 Mackie 808S Powered Mixer (for monitors...or more if possible)

2 Peavey SP5's (400 Watt RMS)

 

Thanks again for everyone's help!

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I'm sure the GX5 is 500 watts per side RMS at 8 ohms. May be a little much for those SP5's, but you could always run 2 on channel two for 700 watts at 4 ohms or 350 per box. Should be fine. Two 8 ohm subs on channel one (crossover switch on.) Or even one sub.

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I'm sure the GX5 is 500 watts per side RMS at 8 ohms. May be a little much for those SP5's, but you could always run 2 on channel two for 700 watts at 4 ohms or 350 per box. Should be fine. Two 8 ohm subs on channel one (crossover switch on.) Or even one sub.

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

How do you know that the GX5 is 500 watts RMS at 8 ohms? Every specification I can find on it doesn't list if the watts are RMS or not.

 

Directly from their web site, QSC recommends a 500 watt (program) speaker for the GX5. By their own admission, they say that loudspeaker manufacturers recommend an amplifier with power output equal to the speaker's "Program (Music) Power" rating or two times (2 x) the "Continuous (RMS) Power" rating.

 

So, if it's 2 times continuous (RMS, right?) which equals Program watts, then they are making a recommendation for the GX5 to pair a 500 watt (program) speaker with a 250 watt RMS amp.

 

They speak of this again in their FAQ.

 

I'm certainly not trying to cause trouble, but the only "proof" that's out there that I can find about the RMS rating of the amp is their speaker recommendation. Their specs just don't mention the wattage type. That in itself is a little suspicious to me.

 

I think the whole point of the "5" in GX5 is that you match up the Program rating of the amp with the program rating of the speaker.

 

Thanks again!

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Thanks for the reply!


How do you know that the GX5 is 500 watts RMS at 8 ohms? Every specification I can find on it doesn't list if the watts are RMS or not.


Directly from their web site, QSC recommends a 500 watt (program) speaker for the GX5. By their own admission, they say that loudspeaker manufacturers recommend an amplifier with power output equal to the speaker's "Program (Music) Power" rating or two times (2 x) the "Continuous (RMS) Power" rating.


So, if it's 2 times continuous (RMS, right?) which equals Program watts, then they are making a recommendation for the GX5 to pair a 500 watt (program) speaker with a 250 watt RMS amp.


They speak of this again in their
.


I'm certainly not trying to cause trouble, but the only "proof" that's out there that I can find about the RMS rating of the amp is their speaker recommendation. Their specs just don't mention the wattage type. That in itself is a little suspicious to me.


I think the whole point of the "5" in GX5 is that you match up the Program rating of the amp with the program rating of the speaker.


Thanks again!

 

 

Well I'm pretty sure, but you could always email or call QSC and ask. I wouldn't get too hung up on all that 2X program crap. For what it's worth we run a QSC GX3 (300 watts per channel at 8 ohms) into a pair of for-install SP5's (115TF) and it's plenty loud for us. The SP5's are rated 400 watts RMS which I never understood since the 15" Scorpions are only rated 250 watts or something like that. If I were you I would err on the side of caution.

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QSC does NOT list a "program" rating for their amps. "Program" power is a speaker maker invention that has become accepted and commonplace to let people know what size amplifier to buy. The only amps to worry about are those of the "pyramid/pyle" types that list multiple wattages with no basis in testing, a leftover from the stereo wars of the 1970's.

 

If the QSC manual is unclear to you, simply ASK THEM over at www.qsc.com in their forums. They have many forums for all their gear.

 

The GX amp series is a steal for a QSC product.

 

Boomerweps

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QSC does NOT list a "program" rating for their amps. "Program" power is a speaker maker invention that has become accepted and commonplace to let people know what size amplifier to buy. The only amps to worry about are those of the "pyramid/pyle" types that list multiple wattages with no basis in testing, a leftover from the stereo wars of the 1970's.


If the QSC manual is unclear to you, simply ASK THEM over at
www.qsc.com
in their forums. They have many forums for all their gear.


The GX amp series is a steal for a QSC product.


Boomerweps

Thanks! Yep, I've signed up for the forums already, but it takes an administrator to approve before I can post. I do intend to ask this question on the support forum soon.

 

I really wouldn't question the ratings except for what they say about their recommendation. Because what they recommend is based on a 250 watt rms amp.

 

Let's say we remove this particular amp from the equation and if you follow their advice, they are describing a 250 watt rms amp. If the GX5 is indeed a 500 watt RMS amp @ 8 ohms, then it would be in their best interest to recommend a speaker at 1000 W program (based on their reasoning). That would increase their sales because you'd have an even more powerful amp at that price point.

 

Maybe I'm full of it...I don't know.

 

Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.

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I think most folks here would suggest you forget all that 2X program nonsense and match your speakers RMS ratings. In other words if you have a 400 watt RMS speaker (SP5) run it with a 400 watt RMS amp or an amp reasonably close. Too much power and you are looking at repair bills.

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I think most folks here would suggest you forget all that 2X program nonsense and match your speakers RMS ratings. In other words if you have a 400 watt RMS speaker (SP5) run it with a 400 watt RMS amp or an amp reasonably close. Too much power and you are looking at repair bills.

 

 

Makes sense!

 

The way I was going to match amps to speakers was from what Mogwix said on this forum post here. Towards the bottom he says...

 

 

To be clear: If you have an 8ohm speaker rated for 500W RMS/ 1000W program. It's a good idea to find an amp that's anywhere from 500W to 1000W at 8 ohms. 750W is ideal, according to most here.
General rule being power at 1.5x RMS.
This way you're giving the speaker enough power to perform at it's fullest, yet not too much power that you risk damage. Beyond this, more amplifier power generally yields diminishing returns, and change for damage rises exponentially.

 

 

That sounds like sense too.

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Does this suggest that the GX5 must be 250 RMS (500 Program), particularly if going by the advice from the 1st paragraph?


If this is correct, it just irritates me that QSC provides different watt types (RMS vs Program) for different brand of amps in their specs.


Thanks again for the reply.

 

 

I had to bring up this posting because I CANNOT find where this quote you found came from. The QSC GX manual I have downloaded does not have it. Bottom line: There is NO PROGRAM RATING listed on this amplifier's manual, neither explicit nor infered! Stop being fixated on this term when discussing only amplifiers. It does not exist in amplifier ratings except for poorly manufactured units that are trying to advertise a power rating far past their clipping point.

 

The GX5 amp is 500 watts at 8 ohms and 700 watts at 4 ohms rated. Match it to 500 watt program rated 8 ohm speakers OR 700 watt program rated 4 ohm speakers (or load per side) or 250 watt RMS/Continuous rated 8 ohm speakers.

 

Boomerweps

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It may very well be 500 rms at 8 ohms, but I couldn't find out positively from the specs because it just says "500". The manual is here ->
.


But they do recommend a 500 watt (Program) speaker for the GX5.

 

 

It's pretty clearly called out ... GX5 - 500W @ 1kHz both channels driven into 8 ohms at onset of clipping.

 

Amplifiers do not have "program ratings". That would be meaningless.

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