Members Dogoth Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 I worked with an artist this weekend that had possibly the best mastery of guitar tone that I've heard. He was very specific about his backline (It was a fender twin 6x reissue) and used some kind of power soak device. He played a strat with (I believe) single coil pickups. The stage volume was still moderatly loud (not unbearably so) but........... I believe because he used the powersoak device he could seriously over drive the OUTPUT tubes as well as the front end stage. It was the most musical sounding distortion that I've ever heard. At times his guitar sounded like an overdriven harmonica or even that overdriven lesli sound. It has the coolest natural compression that I've ever heard (rich in harmonics & interesting musical feedback - Think Hendrix). I'm sold - tubes are the way to go for guitar tone. I've always thought this but this show drove the point home with a sledge hammer. FWIW the band was a trio and although the basist & drummer were great players in their own rights, you never took your ears off of the guitarist. His sound (as well as expertise & techique - especialy with slide) was phenominal. Tubes Yea!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members robertfoshizzle Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 I wonder how long it will be (if ever) until that kind of sound is replicated digitally to exacting standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 Tube amps have been around for ever and they aint copied it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philw44 Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 Sounds like he knows his gear then. Don't suppose you know what attenuator he was using? The THD hotplate & Weber Mass seem to get the best reviews but there's plenty of home-made ones out there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 Nothing makes a sound mans job easier than a musician thats done their homework and knows what they want. I wish I could charge an extra $10 every time I ask a muso "did ya read the manual and try it?" To many guitarists want a sound they hear from another guitarist and buy this or that pedal because its what they saw someone else using. The "tweakability" in pedals is what makes the difference. But they won't take the time to learn anything about them. Drives me nuts. My late father, who made it to 97, used to say that " anything worth having is worth working for." So true. Tubes are not just for guitars. Older keys benefit greatly also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 Anything executed well will have good results. I disagree that tubes are the ONLY way to generat nice, musical overdrive. It's one component of the sound, but there plenty of examples of tubes producing horrible results too. There's the instrument, the player, the entire amplification approach (design-wise), and the speaker/cabinet. All of these play into the overall sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whiteop Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 what I never got about digital being better than analog was the fact that an analog signal is continuous and a digital signal is broken up into thousands of sections and then reassembled so I don't understand why digital would be better than analog other than the fact that you have to convert an analog signal to digital form to be able to use it and manipulate it on a computer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 what I never got about digital being better than analog was the fact that an analog signal is continuous and a digital signal is broken up into thousands of sections and then reassembled so I don't understand why digital would be better than analog other than the fact that you have to convert an analog signal to digital form to be able to use it and manipulate it on a computer.... Because, done well, it gives the skilled designer processing tools that can not be done inside a reasonably sized and priced package, with features that can be even more valuable to many customers. Noise levels can be vastly improved too. Just because an analog signal is converted to digital is not a sin unto itself. And this is from a primarily analog guy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 what I never got about digital being better than analog was the fact that an analog signal is continuous and a digital signal is broken up into thousands of sections and then reassembled so I don't understand why digital would be better than analog other than the fact that you have to convert an analog signal to digital form to be able to use it and manipulate it on a computer.... Google "Nyquist theorem" In a live setting, there are a lot of practical advantages to replacing analog equipment with digital. Generally, with digital, you can pack a lot more processing into a smaller, lighter, cheaper package. On larger analog consoles, there are several thousand knobs & switches, all of which are connected to their own discrete components - all of which add cost, weight, and size. With a digital board, you have CPU's and a handful of multi-function rotary encoders. With a stage box & digital snake, you can make a significant reduction in the amount of cabling you have to purchase and transport. Guys on the lower end can now afford to have dynamics & fully parametric eq's on every channel. Guys on the high-end can have all their favorite studio plug-ins and a reduced footprint. Everybody can transport their mix from one show to the next with all of their settings instantly recalled. For someone who's got to make a living doing this, those are some pretty significant advantages. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 That's exactly what I do. I have a H&K Red Box DI with a 75W 8ohm resistor tied to it. The resistor is required because tube amps MUST see a load or you will burn up the output trannie. Pushing the output tubes is where the TONE is. I play rhythm but I've gotten better guitar tones than the LEAD guitarist in the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 what I never got about digital being better than analog was the fact that an analog signal is continuous and a digital signal is broken up into thousands of sections and then reassembled so I don't understand why digital would be better than analog other than the fact that you have to convert an analog signal to digital form to be able to use it and manipulate it on a computer.... Early set standards for digital audio (CD 16bit 44.1k sample rate) has given digital a bad name. With the ever falling cost of computer power, near perfect reproduction of the audio bandwidth and beyond is easily possible. A 24/96 conversion is (even to a dog) indistinguishable from what went into the board (provided quality converters are used). Even the old CD standard has been improved on dramaticly by the use of better, more accurate conversion. The advantage is of course that by crunching numbers it is possible to do things that were impossible to do in the analog world (Mostly in the areas of EQ, Dynamics and record/reproduction lossless editing I.E. Brick wall filters, Perfectly phase coherent filters, Near 0 attack & release time for dynamics (not that you'd use this one often :>) and of course slice & dice editing). There are some places where digital falls short (but so does analog) I.E. Very complex math algorythms like true sounding room reverbs & tube overdrive modeling (but they are getting better all of the time). In both the live & studio world perfect recallability and automation are also capabilities that analog in incapable of (well maybe Gamble or SSL are but only Banks & such can own that type of equipment :>). For daily chores & our purposes (to strive for perfect reproduction of an analog source), I'm a fan of high end digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Balladeer Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 One of the differences is that with analogue sound - in recordings for example - you tend to get distortion at higher volumes, whereas a quiet digital signal will use fewer bits than a louder one and can therefore sound more 'grainy' and unnatural than a louder passage. Obviously today's bitrates and digital techniques mitigate this to some extent, but I don't think it's ever going to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 FWIW, I find that digital modeling on guitar tones can sound as good as the "real thing" (cranked tube amps!) I'd be willing to bet there are a select few that could tell the difference My biggest issue is the differences in response to technique and input signals in-general. It always FEELS better playing through a cranked tube amp than it does through any modeler I've tried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 My biggest issue is the differences in response to technique and input signals in-general. It always FEELS better playing through a cranked tube amp than it does through any modeler I've tried... This is where analog modeling approached can be better... for the time being. This is, of course, changing as the software guys get a better handle on how all the parameters translate to feel. Look at the keyboard industry, soundwise, the higher end digital keyboards are pretty much there, and the feel is getting closer with every generation. In general though, there are still mechanical elements to the feel that are included where applicable in the digital keyboards to get that feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.