New Fostex Digital Mixer

[tombo007]

What do you all think?

 

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pro_products/lm16.shtml

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pro_products/lr16.shtml

[RoadRanger]

I've seen the LR before but not the LM. Re: the LM -

 

Digital snake included :) .

About the same price as the StudioLive .

 

No gates on the channels :( .

Only two pre-fader sends (Aux3 is post-fader only) .

Only one sweepable mid .

Channel inserts only on 1-8 and located on the stagebox .

 

With Aux1 switchable pre or post and a dedicated Fx send they should have made aux3 pre - stupid mistake on a live board. If this had another row of knobs and an LED per channel for gate thresholds it would actually be useful.

 

Back to the drawing board guys - and get yourself someone who has actually run live sound to advise you!

[Unalaska]

For a capture device it might be pretty cool. Many recording setups don't accomodate many monitor mixes in the home studio market, 2 is fine for many. If the bulk of mixing is done within a PC then who cares how much eq etc is available. Then again who cares what the mixer in general is as long as the pre's are decent and gets to the hard drive ok.

[abzurd]

 

For a capture device it might be pretty cool. Many recording setups don't accomodate many monitor mixes in the home studio market, 2 is fine for many. If the bulk of mixing is done within a PC then who cares how much eq etc is available. Then again who cares what the mixer in general is as long as the pre's are decent and gets to the hard drive ok.

 

 

Agreed - It seems a goofy product with no customer base. Not enough tools for live mixing and not nearly enough for post production. It's clearly marketed for live sound. What's the point? What am I missing?

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Hey, who doesn't love a digital mixer with knobs? Plus it comes with a FoodSaver vacuum food sealer!!!

[RoadRanger]

For a capture device it might be pretty cool. Many recording setups don't accomodate many monitor mixes in the home studio market, 2 is fine for many. If the bulk of mixing is done within a PC then who cares how much eq etc is available. Then again who cares what the mixer in general is as long as the pre's are decent and gets to the hard drive ok.

For the "LR" ("R"ecording version) version I agree. But - the "LM" version is supposed to be for live sound and they really should have done more than just removing the recording interface. At a minimum making AUX3 pre-fader would have shown they had put at least a little thought into it .

[agedhorse]

It appears to be 3 pre-fader and 1 post-fader. Terminology is kind of goofy describing this.

 

For low level uses, where the features are not necessary, it might be ok. There appears to be no presets or memory of basic configurations, on;y a 3 band eq, no comoressors or gates (limiters APPEAR to be preset to prevent clipping of busses and outputs, not shire how this works in practice), there is onboard effects, but it really looks like a digitally controlled analog TYPE board, in that the digital processing emulates the look, feel AND function of analog. I don't think the benefits are really justified personally.

 

IMO, just looking at the market and the areas of digital consoles that are stumbling blocks from the service and support area, here's what I think would be viable, sellable and supportable at the mid level...

 

Frame in the 16-40 channel range

Each channel having the following dedicated encoders:

Input Trim

10 aux sends (encoder)

1 main fader (motorized pot)

solo

mute

channel select (opens that channel in touchscreen display)

 

 

Each channel under the hood (accessable via channel select using only that switch):

 

comp

gate

effects

4 band para eq

variable HPF

polarity

phantom

pan

mic/line select (or A/B if dual input?)

8 subgroup assignments

 

Master Section:

8 subgroups (motorized faders)

each of these with 4 band para, comp

 

10 aux sends (motorized encoders)

each of these with 31 band graph, comp

 

LMR master faders (motorized faders)

each of these with 31 band graph, comp

 

4 Effects returns w/ 4 band eq and assigns (motorized faders)

 

Scene memory stored with fade rate between scenes of maybe 1 second max.

 

Straight ahead routing, remote digitally controlled mic pres, no esoteric control, not a lot of additional computerized options, not a lot of menues and layers to get confusing or to allow you to route something somewhere it would never in any rational operation be needed. Keep the interface a ssimple and realtime user friendly as possible.

 

IMO, this is where the mid level consoles will end up eventually. Kind of the best of the analog and digital worksurface concept. The stuff that gives the real world control for live use accessable and the stuff that doesn't need to be acccessed in a hurry one switch away. My guess that this will come in around the $12-20k range and have a learning curve a fraction of the LS-9.

 

The main thing is that it's easily useable for a lot of applications where multiple users that may be somewhat familiar with mixing are used. It's like taking today's digital consoles and making them more user friendly and making analog consoles feature/cost/size/weight friendly. Preset scenes would be a lot more convenient for multiple users AND during a show.

[dboomer]

Did I just miss it ... or is there no noise/dynamic range spec posted?

[RoadRanger]

It appears to be 3 pre-fader and 1 post-fader. Terminology is kind of goofy describing this.

Yah, you have to check out the photos to figure it out:

As you can see, AUX1 is switchable pre or post, Aux2 is pre and Aux3 is post. Typical of "beginner" mixers it has a post fader Aux4 that is labeled "EFF" for the mixer illiterate .

[RoadRanger]

Input Trim 10 aux sends (encoder)

On several of the rotary controls you specified "motorized", did you also mean for these to be motorized or is an LED ring around them for present "position" good enough? Are you saying you'd want all the auxes available on separate knobs at all times (AKA 32ch x 10aux = 320 rotay encoders ) ? I do like the row of encoders on my DDX3216 - I can (for instance) push the aux2 button and have all the channel aux2 sends indicate their present position on the LED rings around the row of knobs and can then tweak them all. Most (?) low end digital boards use the faders for this functionality as they don't have the row of rotary encoders which means you loose your channel faders when you switch to tweaking an aux .

[6Imzadi]

I didn't see any mention about the price it goes for. Anything above $1000 would be too much for the limited features I see. Seems like a real early try at a digital mixer. They should have looked at the competitors.

 

My SL has "encoders" for tweaking the aux sends, and I don't think I ever saw a digital that used faders for that purpose. Not that there isn't one. Just thought of one. The 01V, I think, has that feature.

 

I do like that the "snake" is a cat5 cable. Too bad they didn't think to put a redundant in there.

 

I don't like that there is only 8 insertable channels. Not that I need inserts on my digital. To me, take them out. It only makes it look incomplete.

 

4 aux sends is not enough in todays market. Especially live. Mine has 8 and I am using all of them.

 

In the digital world, there is no excuse for a 3 band mid sweep channel eq. That seems short sighted.

 

Just my $0.02

[Dogoth]

 

It appears to be 3 pre-fader and 1 post-fader. Terminology is kind of goofy describing this. For low level uses, where the features are not necessary, it might be ok. There appears to be no presets or memory of basic configurations, on;y a 3 band eq, no comoressors or gates (limiters APPEAR to be preset to prevent clipping of busses and outputs, not shire how this works in practice), there is onboard effects, but it really looks like a digitally controlled analog TYPE board, in that the digital processing emulates the look, feel AND function of analog. I don't think the benefits are really justified personally. IMO, just looking at the market and the areas of digital consoles that are stumbling blocks from the service and support area, here's what I think would be viable, sellable and supportable at the mid level... Frame in the 16-40 channel range Each channel having the following dedicated encoders: Input Trim 10 aux sends (encoder) 1 main fader (motorized pot) solo mute channel select (opens that channel in touchscreen display) Each channel under the hood (accessable via channel select using only that switch): comp gate effects 4 band para eq variable HPF polarity phantom pan mic/line select (or A/B if dual input?) 8 subgroup assignments Master Section: 8 subgroups (motorized faders) each of these with 4 band para, comp 10 aux sends (motorized encoders) each of these with 31 band graph, comp LMR master faders (motorized faders) each of these with 31 band graph, comp 4 Effects returns w/ 4 band eq and assigns (motorized faders) Scene memory stored with fade rate between scenes of maybe 1 second max. Straight ahead routing, remote digitally controlled mic pres, no esoteric control, not a lot of additional computerized options, not a lot of menues and layers to get confusing or to allow you to route something somewhere it would never in any rational operation be needed. Keep the interface a ssimple and realtime user friendly as possible. IMO, this is where the mid level consoles will end up eventually. Kind of the best of the analog and digital worksurface concept. The stuff that gives the real world control for live use accessable and the stuff that doesn't need to be acccessed in a hurry one switch away. My guess that this will come in around the $12-20k range and have a learning curve a fraction of the LS-9. The main thing is that it's easily useable for a lot of applications where multiple users that may be somewhat familiar with mixing are used. It's like taking today's digital consoles and making them more user friendly and making analog consoles feature/cost/size/weight friendly. Preset scenes would be a lot more convenient for multiple users AND during a show.

 

 

You're pretty closely describing the M7CL (it's got more auxes). They go for around $20k. Other than the 20 bit converters and a slightly funky graphic EQ setup, they truly are one of the easiest & quickest digital boards (1/2 hour & I was mixing on it - 50 shows later and it's like lightning (almost as fast as an analog board :>)).

[agedhorse]

On several of the rotary controls you specified "motorized", did you also mean for these to be motorized or is an LED ring around them for present "position" good enough? Are you saying you'd want all the auxes available on separate knobs at all times (AKA 32ch x 10aux = 320 rotay encoders ) ? I do like the row of encoders on my DDX3216 - I can (for instance) push the aux2 button and have all the channel aux2 sends indicate their present position on the LED rings around the row of knobs and can then tweak them all. Most (?) low end digital boards use the faders for this functionality as they don't have the row of rotary encoders which means you loose your channel faders when you switch to tweaking an aux .

 

Yes, moving LED indicators. Motorized was a poor choice of words.

 

Yes, physical encoders, they are no more expensive than conventional pots though there is a cost to the LED arrays. This is why it won't cost $2k

 

Losing faders is not an option when moving around in a hurry. Basic operational simplicity is important. The board can still be relatively small by comparison.

[agedhorse]

 

I don't like that there is only 8 insertable channels. Not that I need inserts on my digital. To me, take them out. It only makes it look incomplete.

 

You will need them on this one, there's no "inserted" comps and gates!!!

 

Not a good implimentation.

[kevinnem]

SO, Aged - who's church is going to get one first ? Your's that blows up the cones, or mine that is pushing the limits of creative deployment of speaker arrays?

[RoadRanger]

SO, Aged - who's church is going to get one first ? Your's that blows up the cones, or mine that is pushing the limits of creative deployment of speaker arrays?

These are only $2k - way too inexpensive for the church crowd. Oh, and remember to "give 'till it hurts" to finance all them "upgrades" and recones .

[agedhorse]

I think you will see consoles moving in that direction, maybe not will all the aux sends, but it sure would make riding a monitor mix more friendly when there are surprises. I could easily see banks or layers of 4 aux sends though.

[Unalaska]

Fostex has a wierd way of making these really strange boards/recording setups. I think they want to make something for the japanese market and it just leaks out to the US. I remember them having a hard disk recorder (8ch) that only did 2ch at a time and 8ch of analog mixing. And no mixdown L/R recording so you have to record to computer (duh!) or realtime CD or Dat. WTF! This unit may only do the same!

 

why fostex, why?

[agedhorse]

 

why fostex, why?

 

 

EXACTLY!