Pay rates

[Ed Storer]

Since my band isn't getting many gigs lately, I'm thinking of hiring out the PA. The rental would include sound man (me) and an assistant.

 

My rig will cover venues of 250-300 (JBL PRX-515 mains) and provide 2 monitor mixes. Effects are limited to reverb. Console has 8-band parametric EQ and two 31-band graphic EQ's.

 

So what would you expect to charge for:

 

Vocals only with up to 4 floor monitors?

 

Add for instruments w/ subwoofer?

 

Deduct for e-drums?

 

Add for simple lighting (2 stands with 4 PAR 38's)?

 

Thanks for your help. Happy New Year!

 

Ed

[BillESC]

No less than $ 500.00 and that's giving it away IMHO.

[agedhorse]

No less than $ 500.00 and that's giving it away IMHO.

 

Not in the bar band market I wouldn't think. My guess is around $200-300 tops. It's not the corporate or casual market.

 

Don't know what the console is...

[lifeloverwg]

Eight band parametric EQ? What console is this?

Around here you'd be hard pressed to get more than $125 for two powered speakers on sticks and an operator.

 

Good luck, Winston.

[allexcosta]

Nowadays in South Florida you may expect 100 bucks and don't be too offended if someone offers 30 dollars plus beer and dinner...

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Since my band isn't getting many gigs lately, I'm thinking of hiring out the PA. The rental would include sound man (me) and an assistant. My rig will cover venues of 250-300 (JBL PRX-515 mains) and provide 2 monitor mixes. Effects are limited to reverb. Console has 8-band parametric EQ and two 31-band graphic EQ's. So what would you expect to charge for: Vocals only with up to 4 floor monitors? Add for instruments w/ subwoofer? Deduct for e-drums? Add for simple lighting (2 stands with 4 PAR 38's)? Thanks for your help. Happy New Year! Ed

 

Ok, well there's a problem with this as I see it:

 

Your sound & light rig is probably

[oldschooler]

Not in the bar band market I wouldn't think. My guess is around $200-300 tops. It's not the corporate or casual market. Don't know what the console is...

 

I don't think a bar band can afford a $300 sound guy in our town, Andy. A bar band is lucky if they pull in $500 for the night. So unless the members are happy for playing for 50 bucks a piece, a $300 sound guy is out of the question.

 

At $5 cover x 150 people= $750, maybe they will pay $300 for sound but then you better have subs, a 4 mix monitor with drum fill, par tree on both side and be willing to work for 6 hours min..

It makes me very sad to check out Craigslist for sound gigs. I guess everyone has to start somewhere or do whatever it take to make payment to creditors.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

It makes me very sad to check out Craigslist for sound gigs. I guess everyone has to start somewhere or do whatever it take to make payment to creditors.

 

Anybody can compete on price. It's easy: Just be cheaper. It's takes more oomph to compete on something besides just price.

 

BTW: Most that I know who started out competing strictly on price, if they're still in the game (cause they generally have a sponsor) are still competing strictly on price 20 years later. A business plan of competing strictly on price is a guilded cage (covered with rust and duck tape) business plan.

[agedhorse]

 

I don't think a bar band can afford a $300 sound guy in our town, Andy. A bar band is lucky if they pull in $500 for the night. So unless the members are happy for playing for 50 bucks a piece, a $300 sound guy is out of the question. At $5 cover x 150 people= $750, maybe they will pay $300 for sound but then you better have subs, a 4 mix monitor with drum fill, par tree on both side and be willing to work for 6 hours min.. It makes me very sad to check out Craigslist for sound gigs. I guess everyone has to start somewhere or do whatever it take to make payment to creditors.

 

 

That's why I qualified it as $200-300 tops. It's a money losing proposition IME.

[Coaster]

around here you can pull $350 a night if you have:

 

1. truck/trailer

2. 4 stacks of 2 18" and tops

3. about 20,000 to 30,000 watts of power for those stacks

4. 4 wedges, 775 watts each or so with 31 bands on each and one on FOH. better get a dn360 or more $$ to be taken seriously. dbx stuff (which is fine) will get you laughed out on your ass.

5. 24 channel board and 16 channel monitor board with a splitter

6. 4 gates, several gate/comps

7. at least 2 FX, must be decent

8. about 16 to 24 par 56 or 64 with gels, dimmers and a board to run them

9. mic stands and enough mics (14 is usually enough)

10. 50A distro and cables to run everything

11. about 5 racks to put all the amps and foh gear into

 

i've done the math a few times, its around $140,000 to play the game if you find some used deals and with that you can pull about $20,000 to $40,000 gross a year if you stay fairly busy and assume nothign will break. no health insurance, minimal liability from that 20K, what a crock of {censored}. and even then there are people will not pay, bounce their checks, and try and haggle you down for less.

 

oh and that $350 is the money that pays your gas, food, and hotel.

 

i have no interest in playing the aforementioned game although i work with people that are active in it. its actually getting considerably worse right now as the economic slump has finally sunk its teeth into my area and the money is disappearing

[tlbonehead]

Eight band parametric EQ? What console is this? Around here you'd be hard pressed to get more than $125 for two powered speakers on sticks and an operator. Good luck, Winston.

Exactly. What band would want it. No subs, reverb only, very little for lighting.

[heath_eld]

"Exactly. What band would want it. No subs, reverb only, very little for lighting."

 

Obviously really hard to compare your dollars with ours here in aus. Seems like things are tough in the US audio scene though.

 

Out here you'd have no problem getting work, what you were paid would depend on the band and seems to me to vary dramatically. I spoke to a bloke who wanted $400 a day for an old active Yamaha, some speakers and mics, vocal only. OTOH as some on here have alluded to there are plenty who will do the job for petrol money and a few beers (why??)... but probably you'd be looking at $200ish a night for a party or a pub, maybe $350 for corporate for that sort of rig. Agree with everyone on here though: Anyone serious will insist on subs.

 

Nominally our dollars are worth about equal with US (or just under yours) but the cost of PA gear is way more here. Out here its very rare for a band to own a PA, but almost every pub/bar has its own in the city at least. Its usually cheap, bit of home made with some Behringer thrown in for good measure. If you're lucky you'll see Eons.

 

If you had a pro rig, more of the type mentioned above, you'd be looking at about $2-3k. We hired an owner operator for an event recently beyond what i could do, a big outdoor carols, they brought a Turbosound system (4 way) running about 10,000 watts all up and a A&H Ilive, plus suitable mics etc, basic par 56s on a truss, and paid $2400 for the night. We did the comparisons and that was a fair deal.

 

The hardest part though is getting decent clients. Who pay everytime.

[Mike M]

I'm gigging tomorrow (as a muso) with a band at a local restaurant. I recommended the soundprovider for the gig. His usual fee is $400.00+.

 

3-way rig, 6 monitors with 4 mixes, very basic lights (2 trees, par 38), drum mics, all insts/voices mic'ed/DI'd for a 14 piece RB/jam band.

I have provided the sound for this group in the past and it is a bit of work!

 

The provider contacted me to assist him with the setup/teardown (as I got him the gig) and he will mix as I perform with the group. I like doing sound!

 

I have checked out the Craigslist scene and done a couple of sound gigs for bands, but to be truthful, there are not too many good bands that count on Craigslist for getting them gigs. Don't get me wrong, there are good bands that draw a good following, but the bad ones outnumber the good one 5 to 1 in my area.

 

If you have a rig that is collecting dust, toss an ad on CL or better yet, visit your local music store and pin something up on the announcement board.

 

Mike M

[gonzobassman]

Or try to find a younger up,and coming band to take under your wing,put on the next level,and do it for 3-4 hundred for the entire weekend!!!But around here yo are still going to need subs,and double the monitor mixes.I mean I personally would not pay for "2 boxes on sticks"at all...

[tlbonehead]

"Exactly. What band would want it. No subs, reverb only, very little for lighting." Obviously really hard to compare your dollars with ours here in aus. Seems like things are tough in the US audio scene though. Out here you'd have no problem getting work, what you were paid would depend on the band and seems to me to vary dramatically. I spoke to a bloke who wanted $400 a day for an old active Yamaha, some speakers and mics, vocal only. OTOH as some on here have alluded to there are plenty who will do the job for petrol money and a few beers (why??)... but probably you'd be looking at $200ish a night for a party or a pub, maybe $350 for corporate for that sort of rig. Agree with everyone on here though: Anyone serious will insist on subs. Nominally our dollars are worth about equal with US (or just under yours) but the cost of PA gear is way more here. Out here its very rare for a band to own a PA, but almost every pub/bar has its own in the city at least. Its usually cheap, bit of home made with some Behringer thrown in for good measure. If you're lucky you'll see Eons. If you had a pro rig, more of the type mentioned above, you'd be looking at about $2-3k. We hired an owner operator for an event recently beyond what i could do, a big outdoor carols, they brought a Turbosound system (4 way) running about 10,000 watts all up and a A&H Ilive, plus suitable mics etc, basic par 56s on a truss, and paid $2400 for the night. We did the comparisons and that was a fair deal. The hardest part though is getting decent clients. Who pay everytime.

yes, but unless the OP is planning on looking for work in Aus, your point, while interesting and no double valid, has no bearing here.

[jwlussow]

That rig would probably be worth just beer in Chicago. You can't rent a rig like that (too few monitor sends, no subs, low quality board) here at all. I've seen similar rigs but they are owned by a friend of the band and there was no money being exchanged. Don't forget you WILL need to get insurance. Some bar patron trips on a cord and you will be stuck in court for months, if not years. The bar's insurance would probably not cover you since you would be an independent contractor and not part of the band that is under contract. You will find that you will lose money every gig you do. Upgrade your gear and you can do better.

[BillESC]

I agree that the bar band scene is not a money making industry for a sound operator. It's the reason I don't do any work there.

 

Last night I supplied a DJ for a private NYE Party. $ 500.00 for four hours. Supplied two speakers on sticks, dual CD player, DJ mixer, wired mic and one effect light. The DJ and I split the money 50/50.

[agedhorse]

 

I agree that the bar band scene is not a money making industry for a sound operator. It's the reason I don't do any work there.

 

 

Couldn't agree more!!!

[Shaster]

Around my corner of the world, prices reflect what the local music stores rent for. Long & McQuade (retail branch of Yorkville Sound) will rent you two EF500P's, one (or two) LS801 sub, a MixWiz, a couple of NX25P monitors, Eight lights with trees.... for a pretty good price.

 

The small/medium sound operators (me included) have to work and charge within those parameters.

 

Very few folks in my area would pay for the OP's system, they would just head to L&M and rent a couple of NX750's, a couple of E160P's... and a Behringer board, and call it a day.

 

Obviously it's different in every part of the planet.

[kevinnem]

 

(truly profitable... rather than just trading income for unreconcilled accelerated depreciation and/or deferred maintenance/replacement)....

 

 

100% agree, I am always trying to show the people I work with that even though we only had 400$ out of pocket expenses on a 1200$ gig, does NOT mean we made money.

 

my partner and I fight more about this then any other thing. I will not drop below a certain point for quotes, and it frustrates him because even below that point, he is of the opinion we are making money.

[kevinnem]

 

Around my corner of the world, prices reflect what the local music stores rent for. Long & McQuade (retail branch of Yorkville Sound) will rent you two EF500P's, one (or two) LS801 sub, a MixWiz, a couple of NX25P monitors, Eight lights with trees.... for a pretty good price. The small/medium sound operators (me included) have to work and charge within those parameters. Very few folks in my area would pay for the OP's system, they would just head to L&M and rent a couple of NX750's, a couple of E160P's... and a Behringer board, and call it a day. Obviously it's different in every part of the planet.

 

 

Being only 1000 KM east of you, I completely agree.

alot of our client expect us to offer the same price as L+M, but toss in 50$ for the truck, to pick it up, and the guys to do that, . and set it up, run it, tear it down, return it.. ect.

 

I tell my clients straight up, if they need a lower price, they can rent the stuff for 1/2 of what I charge from L+M, and pick up a uhual (if they can find one) , and hire a sound guy (if they know one). I don't compete with L+M, they make there money off of using gear they get for cheap, with low margin, that is not my game, so I take my ball and go home.

 

Some of the stuff I can offer that L+M can't -

 

Well if I say we are doing the event, I don't phone up and say "sorry all the gear is all ready rented".

 

I know what a 'bi-amp" means.

 

I know what ohms are.

 

a show on saterday, is not a "2day" rental, cause we are closed on Sundays

 

what I don't offer, that L+M seems to:

 

No you can't mess up/blow up all my stuff and NOT expect to pay for it.

Indefinate payment terms, I will send you to collections.

[W. M. Hellinger]

I suspect the bar band scene is generally not a money making industry for bands... especially bands comprised entirely of musicians.

 

However, I believe there is generally a lucrative market for good professional entertainers in most regions. I'll also suggest one of the best ways to get a handle on what works and what doesn't is to spend some time working the production side of the industry. If Ed's got time on his hands (because his band's schedule is empty-ish) and wants to work some sound gigs, that might be the best thing for Ed to get tuned up on what would kick the band's schedule into gear. Possibly the best approach for Ed would be to get on with a good established contractor in the area, rather than going-it on his own. Even as a unpaid volunteer working for an established contractor, I'd suspect the education learned and contacts gained will be at a better return on investment than trying to go-it as a fresh start-up sole proprietor.

[dennis a]

 

Being only 100 KM east of you, I completely agree.

 

 

Did either Vancouver or Calgary move?

 

Dennis

[kevinnem]

 

Did either Vancouver or Calgary move? Dennis

 

 

dropped a zero .... hey maybe that is why why quotes are all wrong!

[Shaster]

 

Some of the stuff I can offer that L+M can't - Well if I say we are doing the event, I don't phone up and say "sorry all the gear is all ready rented". I know what a 'bi-amp" means. I know what ohms are. a show on saterday, is not a "2day" rental, cause we are closed on Sundays what I don't offer, that L+M seems to: No you can't mess up/blow up all my stuff and NOT expect to pay for it. Indefinate payment terms, I will send you to collections.

 

 

It's unfortunate that people often don't see the value in having qualified experienced operators, decent rental pick-up and return times (or delivery), and all the other things that come with indie owner/operators. Although regarding pick-up times, I must admit that I have a good relationship with L&M and they will hold stuff for me, but that doesn't apply to everybody or every store.

 

And yea, I think some renters love L&M cause you can use and abuse their stuff - no questions asked, no compenstion sought.

 

I'm not really knocking them at all. If their biusiness model works, more power to them.