Members JLo Posted December 31, 2009 Members Share Posted December 31, 2009 Greetings - long time - no post, but am in severe need of a solution and value the opinions of those here.... the backstory: I am in a church band, and our main guitarist has recently stepped down. this puts me (the lead keys player) to cover a lot of parts and also requires that the drummer and some other instrumentalists need to hear me a little more predominately than before. the gear in question: We run an AUX feed to a 6 channel headphone amp for the drummer, bassist, percussionists and myself, all 4 of us on IEMs (Shure E2 or E3s). I take the feed from the headphone amp into a small Rolls personal monitor mixer, where I have the band feed on one channel and a personal "more me" feed from the keyboards to one of the other channels. The problem: With the slight increase in level for the rest of the band to cover the new parts (on the headphone amp, from the board) I have seemed to encountered what I believe is a possible phasing problem. If I increase the level of my keyboard's channel on the personal mixer, there is a threshold point for which the keyboards seemingly disappear completely from my IEM mix. if I turn down the keys channel, the AUX feed is there, with guitars vocals and even a small amount of the keys (from the board). and likewise, if I turn down the band's AUX mix, I have plenty of keys from the "more me" mix. The problem is, the point in which I really need the mix is the EXACT point the signal disappears. I need to figure out the problem and subsequently a solution. I really think its some sort of phasing issue where the 2 signals are completely canceling each other out. is there some way to invert the phase of perhaps the keys channel only (going into the Rolls personal mixer)??? Any suggestions, solutions?? Has anyone encountered this type of prob before? I had it happen once in the past with a slightly different setup, but brushed it off at the time..? THANKS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted December 31, 2009 Members Share Posted December 31, 2009 I'm not sure if this helps at all, but sometimes I get a similar thing happening in the IEM's my church uses. We use the PSM 200 with E2 earbuds. We don't use any personal mixers (right now anyway, should be moving to an Aviom system soon, yay!) so all feeds come from the Aux sends at the mixer. But I will have our "sound guy" get each instrument and and vocal to the level that sounds good. Then when the full band plays the levels get all jacked up. We figured out its just the built in limiters. You might want to try bringing down the feed levels and turning the receiver volume up if you haven't tried that yet. Hope this helps, and good luck if it doesn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 31, 2009 Members Share Posted December 31, 2009 It's certainly possible, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 31, 2009 Members Share Posted December 31, 2009 I think it's the limiters too. Phase cancellations are only an issue when two nearly identical things conflict. I doubt that your keys conflict with other instruments in the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JLo Posted December 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 31, 2009 dboomer (et al) - that's exactly my point. It has nothing to do with the other instruments, it is the signal from the keys coming into the Rolls mini mixer from both the board (the headphone amp signal in) and also the keys from my rig's mixer. My fear is that the same signal is coming in from 2 different sources and outputting to my headphones, and by coming in such a manner, the phases are canceling when the levels approach each other. is there a simple way to invert the phases, perhaps the signal coming from my mixer to the Rolls personal mixer in order to prevent this from happening? I know for a fact it is not the limiters. The headphone amp is wide open and the personal mixer does not have any. Plus, I know what excessive limiting sounds like, and this is definitely not it Thanks again, and cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 1, 2010 Members Share Posted January 1, 2010 I stand by my post, I am reasonably sure you will find an inversion in your key signal direct relative to through the second signal path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted January 1, 2010 Members Share Posted January 1, 2010 I doubt that your keys conflict with other instruments in the band. there's a joke here somewhere, except the opposite of this statement is all too real most of the time. check out my band page before you jump on me about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted January 2, 2010 Members Share Posted January 2, 2010 If your keys are in the band mix as well as your 'more me' input, I'm sure that you are correct in your assessment. Have the mixperson reverse the polarity of the keys channel(s) on the console, or (better option) reverse the polarity of the band mix feed to your personal mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JLo Posted January 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Thanks timmyP Unfortunately the mixer does not have a polarity switch (a 15 year old Peavey). However, I think I might attempt to add a small amount of delay to the band signal to keep them out of phase entirely... Just enough to not really be noticed, but enough to keep the signals out of phase. I still need to try it yet this weekend, but doubt the small amount of delay will be noticed, because My personal keys signal should overpower the bands keys just enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 there's a joke here somewhere, except the opposite of this statement is all too real most of the time. check out my band page before you jump on me about this. I meant in terms of phase cancellation ... not musical obliteration (which is waaaay too common) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted January 6, 2010 Members Share Posted January 6, 2010 Thanks timmyP Unfortunately the mixer does not have a polarity switch (a 15 year old Peavey). However, I think I might attempt to add a small amount of delay to the band signal to keep them out of phase entirely... Just enough to not really be noticed, but enough to keep the signals out of phase. I still need to try it yet this weekend, but doubt the small amount of delay will be noticed, because My personal keys signal should overpower the bands keys just enough... All you need to do to reverse the polarity is make a cable with Pin 2 and 3 (or tip and ring) swapped on one end. This would be much easier than patching in a delay (which would not be effective, as the delay would push the signal out of polarity at only one frequency). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 6, 2010 Members Share Posted January 6, 2010 dboomer (et al) - that's exactly my point. It has nothing to do with the other instruments, it is the signal from the keys coming into the Rolls mini mixer from both the board (the headphone amp signal in) and also the keys from my rig's mixer. My fear is that the same signal is coming in from 2 different sources and outputting to my headphones, and by coming in such a manner, the phases are canceling when the levels approach each other. s! Then unplugging (or otherwise turning off) one of the sources will immediately rase your level. Is that the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JLo Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Don - I will have to confirm, but I do believe that to be the case... if I unplug one of the inputs, everything is A-OK.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 9, 2010 Members Share Posted January 9, 2010 OK ... that sounds like a polarity issue. So try Tim P's suggestion and you should get a quick answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.