Members chapterII Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 My band currently uses the following equipment to play live... Behringer XENYX 2442FX Mixermain outs to...Behringer Ultragraph Pro EQBehringer Composer Pro-XL CompressorPeavey Kosmos V2 Crossoverout to...3 Behringer Europower4000's Provides us with a great sound.I have 2 questions. How would I connect all the externals to run them back into the mixer so that our soundguy can hear the final mix through his headphones? Would I use the Inserts? With Y-Cables? Also, Should our externals be run in a certain specific order?Like EQ>Compressor>Crossover... etc?What is the best/correct order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Curious, why do you want your soundguy to hear the main mix through headphones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Oh, and my board has a button to select whatever bus you want to go to the headphone out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 My band currently uses the following equipment to play live...Behringer XENYX 2442FX Mixermain outs to...Behringer Ultragraph Pro EQBehringer Composer Pro-XL CompressorPeavey Kosmos V2 Crossoverout to...3 Behringer Europower4000'sProvides us with a great sound.I have 2 questions. How would I connect all the externals to run them back into the mixer so that our soundguy can hear the final mix through his headphones? Would I use the Inserts? With Y-Cables?Also, Should our externals be run in a certain specific order?Like EQ>Compressor>Crossover... etc?What is the best/correct order? I would run from mixer>eq>crossover>amp>speakers. I would not put the compressor in that chain of signal. Instead I would insert the compressor to the channels that need compression. As for your question about the headphones, I am not sure what you are trying to achieve. There should be a headphone out on the board if you need to utilize that. Otherwise if your sound guy sits at the back of the room then he would just listen to the FOH speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Well, the mixer does have a single headphone jack with no type of selecter. What I am trying to do is get the final mix back into the mixer so that we can utilize the USB to PC connector to record. I am hoping that by sending the eq/crossover back into the mixer, we would recieve that signal (final mix) through the headphones and the USB out. I just am not sure exactly how to route the EQ/Crossover back into the mixer as we have only ever used our equipment for live shows and had no need to do this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Just to clarify, anything we record now through the USB is 'before' the EQ and Crossover. Trying to get those back into the mixer so that the EQ and Crossover are 'after'. Meaning they are sent back in, and thus out the USB and headphone jack. I just don't know alot about routing this back into the mixer. The mixer has single AUX sends and was told I could use an input snake or a single 1/4" to double 1/4" to accomplish this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Oh no, don't do that. The potential for accidentially routing it back out again and causing an electrical feedback loop is way too likely and this is sure to cause your dear, beloved Behringer gear to emit it's magig smoke and stop making it's lovely sound. Headphones should be able to listen to the main mix (you should not care about the "externals" (interesting choice of words) because that's just used (if you know what you are doing - qualification) to correct for a deficiency outside of the mix. Read the manual, it's going to be there, you can listen to the overall mix, but nobody in their right mind would listen to it after eq and comps (for this application). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Well, the only reason we wanted to try it was because when we recorded before, we adjusted everyone's volume (bass/guitar/drums(DM5)/singer/and 3 backup vocals) so that they were all the same level. When we listened back to it, the lead vocal (all the same exact mics) was ALOT louder than anything else. But out of the mains, the levels were correct. Thought it had something to do with the other items in the chain. Maybe we just need to tweak the board a little more. We have had no issues with live sound, but this is the 1st time trying to record for all of us. But then again, all of these damn little bars now think they NEED a demo before they'll let you play, even tho we've opened for major label bands before... go figure. Any help/suggestions are appreciated. And BTW, the manual doesn't tell me anything. I've posted questions on the behringer forums, but you know how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Well, the only reason we wanted to try it was because when we recorded before, we adjusted everyone's volume (bass/guitar/drums(DM5)/singer/and 3 backup vocals) so that they were all the same level. When we listened back to it, the lead vocal (all the same exact mics) was ALOT louder than anything else. But out of the mains, the levels were correct. Thought it had something to do with the other items in the chain. Maybe we just need to tweak the board a little more. We have had no issues with live sound, but this is the 1st time trying to record for all of us. But then again, all of these damn little bars now think they NEED a demo before they'll let you play, even tho we've opened for major label bands before... go figure. Any help/suggestions are appreciated. And BTW, the manual doesn't tell me anything. I've posted questions on the behringer forums, but you know how that goes. I bet if you were to turn the PA off, the stuff that is loud, (vocals) would be very quiet when you play live. There is no way easy way to use the board to record, and provide a good mix live. Your PA is supplementing your sound. The guitars, Bass and drums are already loud. They don't need much through the PA. The vocals are quiet, and mostly what your PA is providing. I might suggest a simple recorder at mix position to record what the soundguy is hearing, instead of what is coming out of the PA. Not intending to insult you, but, do you know what the x-over does? I ask because I can kinda get why you were wanting post eq, but never post x-over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 I'm not sure if there is a way for you to route everything back to your mixer post eq, crossover, fx, etc. Typically when you record to your DAW via USB/Firewire you want a clean/dry signal so you can mix it all on the computer. Re-routing it back to your mixer could cause serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 I guess recording USB just sucks! We will try by having the soundguy turn off the PA and set levels via the headphones. I do know what a x-over does, just so frustrated and confused! I'm a Bass Player! I just hang out with the band ya know! Thank you all for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Do you use seperate monitor mixes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 I guess recording USB just sucks! We will try by having the soundguy turn off the PA and set levels via the headphones. I do know what a x-over does, just so frustrated and confused! I'm a Bass Player! I just hang out with the band ya know! Thank you all for your help The problem as gspointer pointed out is that your mains mix isn't going to be suitable for recording. Things that make their own noise on stage, drums, bass, guitar aren't going to need to be as loud in the mains as vocals, acoustic guitars, etc. that rely on the PA exclusively for their sound (unless you're playing a huge place). If you do get a decent headphone mix, it's not likely to be very good for the house mix. Also, the eq for the room may not be desirable for recording. When recording, you basically want a clean dry signal that you tweak when you're mixing. Sounds like you don't really have what you need for the job. My band has a 16 track mixer and a 16 track digital recorder that lets you record 8 tracks at once. We run lead vocals, guitar, bass, 4 drum mics and a subgroup with the background vocals into the 8 inputs on the recorder. The signal going to the recorder is straight from the instrument mics. No effects on any of it. That's really a minimal setup for getting a respectable recording of a small band at a live show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 I guess recording USB just sucks! We will try by having the soundguy turn off the PA and set levels via the headphones. I do know what a x-over does, just so frustrated and confused! I'm a Bass Player! I just hang out with the band ya know! Thank you all for your help Nothing wrong with recording via USB, just how you are going about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Do you have any aux outs left over? That's probably the easiest way to get a decent recording feed live. That, or just stick one of the new all in one stereo mic digital recorders on a stand out front with the audience. That's better for learning how the band really sounds. Winston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 OK, we're not really trying to record a live show. My guitar player is going in for surgery and we cannot gig for awhile, so we are taking the next 2 months to record in our band space to try and come up with a short 5-6 song demo for our promo pack. Will this be possible with my current setup or do I need to purchase something else? I mean as long as the mix off the mixer is ok, will recording via USB (2-channel only) be adequate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 And Agedhorse, if recording VIA usb is ok, how am I going about it wrong? What should I change? Any help is GREATLY appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Use headphones and generate the full mix to left-right. Record this, do not try to do it live with the PA and don't use any ofthe external devices. You want to hear what you are recording, and do this by listening to the L-R output. Check your manual to be sure you really are listening to the correct bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Ok, then add any finishing touches with my DAW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Ok, then add any finishing touches with my DAW? Sure. Of course you can add reverb to your vocals etc while recording live, you wouldn't do this to the whole mix anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chapterII Posted January 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Kewl, thanks a million aged horse. I'll let you know how it goes.So... all this other equipment we have only helps us with live sound?Just thought it could be used with recording, that's ok... I've been a computer tech for almost 20 years... I'm sure I can figure out what I need to know with the DAW, then when I get the cash I'll just buy a M-Audio Delta 1010 and be done with this stereo USB crap. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Russell1234 Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 chapterII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Not sure if this would help you or not. We record rehearsals and make demo recordings using this method. I take the tape out on the mixer (Yamaha MG206G) which has the same signal as the stereo outs; this goes to channels 1 & 2. This gets the vocals, keys and electronic drums. I mic my guitar amp and bass amp goes direct; these are assigned to group 1-2 panned hard left and right. The group 1-2 output goes to recorder channels 3 & 4. So while I can't record everything on it's own channel, I can get pretty decent demo recordings and have control over the guitar and bass separately. Drums and keys have to be balanced on the board. Oh, and I record to my ancient Teac 3440, then dump it into my DAW. I use the DAW for playback of reference recordings during practice, so recording at the same time isn't really practical. Plus I love the old thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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