Members Quarterwave Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hi all, I tried the search function, and didn't get any results, so, as I've been able to get some great help from this forum in the past, I thought I'd ask for some help with a problem that I'm trying to work out @ the moment.... For starters, I own and run the PA in the band that I am currently playing in and have started to book some full-band shows in a small-ish venue - playing once or twice a month on a Sunday afternoon (which is a nice add-on to my usual 3-4 nights per week). The thing is, the set up space is small, and I'm trying to think of ways to minimize my band's footprint (not to mention, saving set up time for me !!!!!). Ideally, I'm looking for options so that I can just plug my Les Paul straight into a live, regular mixer and still get decent guitar sounds. I've tried a POD in the past (the original "kidney bean" type) and it was ok, but nothing like my usual setup (50W all-valve amp, stomp boxes in line and through the effects loop). So, I was wondering if anyone has successfully seen or used a set up that sounds convincing and if so, what type of equipment is needed. FWEIW, I'm not really expecting to be able to totally replace the sound of my amp (which is pretty much set in an overdriven bluesy tone), but I'm hoping to get a more-authentic sound than that of the 1st generation POD - plus, going amp-less would definately be a lot easier for me to fit in the space that we are allocated to play in (eg : for these shows, I have even just started using only 1/2 of my main FOH setup - one speaker and one sub, with 1 monitor.... and it's pretty much perfect for the venue). Budget would be up to around $350 - maybe a bit more if justified. Ideally, something simple would be better, as even though I know a fair bit about deep editing etc...., I just want to be able to tweak a few settings, and then go. Thanks in advance for any help / ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 Tonelab LE or SE does a respectable job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 At the price point you're looking at pick up a used POD XT Live unit. They have some great sounds and are very useable & tweakable. I plan on replacing my early 90's Chameleon with one sometime soon. The XT Live is nothing like the kidney POD that you had before IMO. It's a much better unit and I'll bet you'd be happy with it. Then just run it direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caspar Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 Vox Tonelab ST or LE. Just go and listen. They will eat any Line6 product for breakfast. Use a good DI box between what ever modeler you get and the mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 A used Fender Blues Junior. It fits pratically anywhere and can be used anywhere, just mic it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 I disagree. The PODxt and newer blow the Tonelab away. POD 1.0 and POD 2.0 are not very good. The PODxt Pro or better yet, the PODxt Live are the best units on the market right now, in my opinion. You do not need a DI box between the PODxt Pro or Live and mixer, it is built in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 The guitarist in one of the bands that I work for in some clubs just brings in his normal pedal board that he uses and just plug it into a passive DI to the board.I give him his guitar through his vocal monitor, works out great for clubs where space is at a premium. This clip is one where there is no guitar or bass rig on stage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caspar Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 I disagree. The PODxt and newer blow the Tonelab away. POD 1.0 and POD 2.0 are not very good. The PODxt Pro or better yet, the PODxt Live are the best units on the market right now, in my opinion. You do not need a DI box between the PODxt Pro or Live and mixer, it is built in. Both the units mentioned are way over the budget mentioned. And the footprint is not exactly small. With the xt pro you would need to add a pedal board as well. If you want small, plug and play, killer tone, for $350? Tonelab it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 The PODxt Live can be had for around $350 or so. Same price as the LE. It is true that the Pro is probably out of range because you do probably need the floorboard to use it to it's potential. I still prefer the xt Live over the LE and in the states, they both run about the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samkokajko Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 You could also probably find a used Pod X3 live for $350. I know there is a pawn shop in town with 2 for that price, I have a friend selling one for that price too. I got mine for $250 from a guy right after they came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kyle Abel Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 You could use your existing stomp boxes and add a Red Box or Tubeman or smilar. Something with speaker emulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 Red Box sounds good on the speaker output on an amp, but doesn't sound near as good using a line out. Tonelabs include both speaker emulation and a power amp simulator using a real tube. I'm a tube amp snob and this box does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tombo007 Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 When I play solo I use my digitech pedals (Bad Monkey, Sreamin Blues, Tone Driver). They are inexpensive and have a mixer out, works great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 Both the units mentioned are way over the budget mentioned. And the footprint is not exactly small. With the xt pro you would need to add a pedal board as well. If you want small, plug and play, killer tone, for $350? Tonelab it is! Here's a quick search of POD XT Live got me through this search engine. http://www.craigzoom.com/ http://austin.craigslist.org/msg/1549642366.html$250 http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/msg/1547895926.html$250 http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/msg/1550315008.html$250 A ton of them come up all over the US using that search engine. The 3 I posted above are just the first 3 on the list. For $250 it's a damn good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 A used Fender Blues Junior. It fits pratically anywhere and can be used anywhere, just mic it up. as bad of an overdrive tone as you'll ever find. I'm with the Tonelab guys, without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 as bad of an overdrive tone as you'll ever find. I'm with the Tonelab guys, without a doubt. But what do you really mean:) I've heard some great players getting some great tones out of these so it's all personal perspective I guess. My suggestion was a bit in tongue in cheek, as the OP didn't seem to want anything that wasn't large, or anything that wasn't organic. Most of the good players I know own a Blues Jr. and use them for practice and small gigs. Put a pedal in front, and you're good to go. Some guys throw a JBL in, seems like a bit too much trouble though. But of course a Dumble... would kick their butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whiteop Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 I've been using the Digitech RP1000 with great success at church through the PA. When I listen to it in the recordings it sounds like a real amp for the most part. I own a Rivera Slavemaster and Mesa Stiletto Ace and have been playing 30 + years so I know what good tone sounds like. I have mine set up where it sounds like a Fender Twin, Fender Bassman, AC30, Marshall, Mark IV, and Triple Rec at times. All sound pretty good and there are a lot more choices. Lots of effects too and good overdrive and distortion tones. Almost forgot, it has stereo XLR outputs so you don't have to buy direct boxes. My stereo delay sounds excellent through it. Sometimes I use the panner function and look at the congregation and they're looking back and forth at the speakers. Sort of funny. Usually the younger guitarists though...lol. It's very simple to program too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 The POD or tonelab will do the job but be prepared to do some real tweaking. I suspect also, a weaker guitarist will lose more than a good guitarist: i know lots of guitarists who use those products, the good ones tend to get a great tone, but weaker guitarists, or acoustic guitarists who try to play electric on one song tend to sound not so great. For myself, as a pretty sub-average guitarist, i get a way better tone out of even a cheap tube amp than i did from my POD. From my experience, i'd steer away from boss products for this purpose (i note no one has recommended them anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheDoctorMo Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 I've been using the Digitech RP1000 with great success at church through the PA. When I listen to it in the recordings it sounds like a real amp for the most part. I own a Rivera Slavemaster and Mesa Stiletto Ace and have been playing 30 + years so I know what good tone sounds like. I have mine set up where it sounds like a Fender Twin, Fender Bassman, AC30, Marshall, Mark IV, and Triple Rec at times. All sound pretty good and there are a lot more choices. Lots of effects too and good overdrive and distortion tones. Almost forgot, it has stereo XLR outputs so you don't have to buy direct boxes. My stereo delay sounds excellent through it. Sometimes I use the panner function and look at the congregation and they're looking back and forth at the speakers. Sort of funny. Usually the younger guitarists though...lol. It's very simple to program too. +1 for the RP1000 I bought one for my son and the sound on that is awesome. I, myself, have a GSP1101. It is a more-powerful, rack version of the RP1000, basically. RP1000 is $350 on Pro Guitar Shop's site.GSP1101 is $400. However, it is best-utilized with their Control 2 footswitch which runs $250. I love my GSP for full gigs. For practices and Tuesday-night open jam sessions, I wish I had an RP1000 or RP500 for the portability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarterwave Posted January 14, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 Thanks for all of the great ideas guys - I'll definately look into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 If the modeling boxes could actually model a tube amp, no one would buy or play through tube amps. In my experience, if you're used to the voicing and dynamics of a tube amp, nothing else will be acceptable. The Tone Lab and Pod can get close, but they sound digital and have other problems. The best thing you can do to decrease your footprint is to get a small, low wattage 1x12 combo amp (I use a 5/16W one that I run cranked and it sounds great) and consider losing some of your pedals (I'm down to a tuner, an overdrive, a booster, and a wah) in order to use a smaller pedal board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarterwave Posted January 14, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 Thanks Picker - I agree, and are looking into everything @ the moment. From what I've seen so far, the modellers just aren't really doing it for me (still just too synthetic for my taste), so, I'm going to look into things a little bit more. The thing is, if I'm going to lug any amp, I might as well save my $$ and just keep using my own - which I know and love ! - and then ditch my pedal board - and maybe run only a tuner. That's why I used the POD as an experiment, as I could just set it up next to the PA and run my guitar cable straight into it - thereby eliminating the usual mass of cables associated with a pedalboard (well, mine anyway - what with the send / return cables, input cable, 2 x power cords (I have to run a separate one for my Deluxe Memory Man delay) etc....). But anyway, thanks again for the input, and your suggestion is well received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 If the modeling boxes could actually model a tube amp, no one would buy or play through tube amps. In my experience, if you're used to the voicing and dynamics of a tube amp, nothing else will be acceptable. The Tone Lab and Pod can get close, but they sound digital and have other problems. The best thing you can do to decrease your footprint is to get a small, low wattage 1x12 combo amp (I use a 5/16W one that I run cranked and it sounds great) and consider losing some of your pedals (I'm down to a tuner, an overdrive, a booster, and a wah) in order to use a smaller pedal board. ...and LPs sound so much better then CDs... Beta has better resolution then VHS... The times are a changin'... I used to think the same way but over the years I realized that while I stayed "true" to my sound, the people paying us couldn't give a rat's ass what gear we used. Most people can't tell that we are now emulated at all. It took some time and tweaking, knowing which combinations work and which combinations dont, but we sound better then ever. Best part is our set up time went from 2 to 3 hours down to less then 30 minutes. No more lugging my SVT refrigerator (I loved the sound but my back was taking some serious abuse), our huge HDH system or extra racks of gear. I understand the mentality of "I can only get my sound through a Marshall half stack at full volume" but I grew up a few years ago. My PODxt Pro has done things for my sound that no amp/FX rack could. Emulation isn't for everyone but it has come a long way. Bringing in a system that completely fits in my wife's Quest and easily handles 300 people is much better then the 2 vans and 10' box truck we used to use. We will never go back to amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 14, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Of all the musicians i've known over the years, none need a lesson in "what's good enough" more than guitarists. Being fussy is one thing. Going to the extents that I see so many guitarist go for "their tone", which NOBODY else can hear, or cares about, is quite another. Another point is that even if the argument is given that "it matters to me", the fact still remains that you're playing to a paying audience. Give them what they want and care about....show up on time, play at an appropriate level (of skill and volume), play songs they want to hear, and then END IT. Nothing more is expected. If you aren't a rock star, then kindly remember that you're not a rock star. In the bedroom, fuss over your tone. In the studio Ab-so-{censored}ing-lutely fuss over your tone. At Jack's Dew-Drop-Inn, just plug in and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted January 14, 2010 Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 Thats the other side to it: I've worked with guitarists who won't play in a garage without their cranked tube amp drowning everyone else out. Their tone may well be good, but the band doesnt actually sound its best. People are there to hear the whole band, not the lead guitarist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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