Members dboomer Posted January 17, 2010 Members Share Posted January 17, 2010 While we were in the middle of a whitespaces panel at NAMM the FCC did issue a rule and order that cuts of almost all use of wireless mics in the 700 mHz band (698 mHz - 806 mHz) To see if your unit is affected or not go to http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/wirelessmicrophones/manufacturers.html and click on your manufacturer. It will drive you through the models that must not be used after June 12,2010. It also includes the list of in ear monitors that can no longer be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 17, 2010 Members Share Posted January 17, 2010 I can't wait for a helicopter to land at a local VFW with 37 people inside and haul away the guitarist and bass player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 17, 2010 Members Share Posted January 17, 2010 Not that I don't appreciate the info, Don! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 17, 2010 Members Share Posted January 17, 2010 VFW? Naw. they'd be using some Nady VFH from 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 17, 2010 Members Share Posted January 17, 2010 VFW? Naw. they'd be using some Nady VFH from 87when we play the occasional one "they" are using a Samson Airline and an AKG Guitarbug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 F*ck them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 Yeah aged. whitespace belongs to the people, it's not for the govt. to sell off. Maybe that's just me, I'm sure in 10 years people will have forgotten about it all but many businesses are taking a huge hit with the transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 I'm sitting on maybe $30k worth of affected stuff. This is absolutely absurd. Personally, I think a lot of what the manufacturers did was lipservice because in the end, they win by selling new product. It makes me ill to think about the amount of new product that will be sold only because of a change in the rules. Fortunalely I can (legally) put them into a venue that is grounded heavy metal lath construction and I measured the RF strength outside the building and it's WELL below the RF noise floor in that spectrum. Can't even see it on an RF spectrum analyzer. It's just like operating inside a Faraday cage at that frequency spectrum. If the FCC must enter the building to measure any RF level, I would have an excellent argument for unlawful search and seizure. Even inside, the field strength is very low (they are only 10mW transmitters) and anything now permitted is so much greater (by like 40dB minimum) that I am below their noise floor also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 Even inside, the field strength is very low (they are only 10mW transmitters) and anything now permitted is so much greater (by like 40dB minimum) that I am below their noise floor also. It's been a while since I did any radio service but if I'm correct, you can broadcast on any frequency you want under 100mW. At least that's the rules as I remember them fron the 70s. That's how they can sell the little stereo FM transmitters for using your walkman through your car's FM radio (it's such a low power that you can't really walk on anyone outside of a couple of hundred feet at best anyway). Personaly I'm not worried about the FCC or the legalities, just some big business building a high powered transmitter near my theatre that walks on my show (that could suck). When are we going to go all digital with addressable data packets? Doesn't the 10X (or is it X10?) gear work that way?. I believe this is how they transmit multiple channels over one sattelite carrier. I understand the latency issues but if some enterprising company could buy the rights to putting a priority tag on the packets, they could clean up (who cares if there's a bit more latency in a few peoples cell calls? I know that for a few bucks, the cell companies wouldn't care (greedy B%^*#$s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 It's been a while since I did any radio service but if I'm correct, you can broadcast on any frequency you want under 100mW.Incorrect...Specific to the FM broadcast band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_47_CFR_Part_15Limit there is somewhere around 1mw - but is dependent on the antenna used vs power as it is based upon a field strength of .01uw (microwatts) @ 3 meters. There are other laws that apply to various parts of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 Yeah aged. whitespace belongs to the people, it's not for the govt. to sell off. The government is an arm of the people. It basically acts as our agent and manages our community property. To make a comparison w/ oil: the oil in Alaska also belongs to the people of Alaska and as such, the government gets paid for the oil that's drilled from public lands. Whitespace is no different. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 The government is an arm of the people. It basically acts as our agent and manages our community property. The government is so far out of touch with reality that they can't manage anything properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 The government is so far out of touch with reality that they can't manage anything properly. Certainly the results seem to back this opinion up pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 18, 2010 Members Share Posted January 18, 2010 Incorrect...Specific to the FM broadcast band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_47_CFR_Part_15Limit there is somewhere around 1mw - but is dependent on the antenna used vs power as it is based upon a field strength of .01uw (microwatts) @ 3 meters.There are other laws that apply to various parts of the spectrum. IIRC, it's around 250uW @ 3m for VHF and somewhere around 100uW un UHF. I will have to look it up. The transmitter power was 50mW maximum, subject to limitations on ERP (effective radiated power). Maybe Karl can help out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 19, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 When are we going to go all digital with addressable data packets? Doesn't the 10X (or is it X10?) gear work that way?.. Why thank you! (and it's X2 btw). Here's the real point. The bandwidth is becoming more and more valuable for everyone and digital is the only way to make it work. All the manufacturers are scrambling to try to come up with digital systems and they are hoping to get by until they can. Digital systems can flat sound better because they are not limited to FM technology and if they do it right they are not limited by FCC rules for bandwidth. You will end up with more reliable systems that sound better ... we just happen to have it now (as long as you don't need more than 5 channels). That too will change in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted January 19, 2010 Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 I just got my line 6 wireless mics in and in preliminary testing they sound fantastic! The front mount antenna kits included are very nice also. I purchased 2 b-stock units to test out because the price was really attractive. When the units came in I was expecting 9 volt units. Instead they use 2 AAs. One of them even came with a 9 volt battery! Not a problem at all as I would much rather use the AAs. The only question I have that is not clear in the manual is whether I can rack these two mic units together without getting interference between the 2 units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 19, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 The only question I have that is not clear in the manual is whether I can rack these two mic units together without getting interference between the 2 units? No problem (as long as you don't actually touch the antennas together). Because they are digital systems there is no fear of IM distortion as frequently happens with analog systems if the frequencies aren't carefully calculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 19, 2010 Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 Don - we stopped by to see you at your booth (room) and when I asked if you were around nobody seemed interested in doing anything but saying they hadn't seen you. Pretty much the bare minimum, and when I asked if there was any of the wireless mic product available to look at, they kind of looked at each other with a puzzled look and one said they thought there might be one in a box or something. No offer to show it, no offer to try to find you or anything. Really uninspired or maybe they just didn't care. Not a great way to represent a brand new product with new technology. In fact, that's pretty much how the whole room looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 19, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 Line 6 doesn't have a "booth" in the regular NAMM sense. It's a business office instead. I spent 3 days demoing our products ... all by appointment. Have your girl call my girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gadget Posted January 19, 2010 Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 Am I reading the specifications correctly on the Line 6 wireless products, in that there are only five transmission frequencies available? If so, that would mean you could only run five Line 6 wireless units together. Right? Or have I once again opened my pie-hole and inserted my foot once again? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 19, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 There are 5 user channels (which actually uses up 10 frequencies). But what's different about our technology is that all 5 channels work all the time. You don't have to scan for new frequencies as you move from city to city ... and there is nowhere in North America where you'd end up with channels in your "block" that wouldn't work. We operate in the 902-928 MhZ ISM band which is much smaller than the UHF band which even after the FCC ruling is 220 mHz wide (ours is only 26 mHz wide). So by operating in this ISM band we avoid all problems with this FCC ruling as well as any DTV interference and and future problems with new TVBDs (whitespace devices) ... guaranteed! It's probably not intuative because other brands seem to offer hundreds or thousands of "frequencies" ... but these frequencies are not "channels". For example if you looked at the best selling wireless in the USA, even though it has hundreds of "frequencies" you can only use 8 "channels". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dennis a Posted January 19, 2010 Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 I'm not sure I am understanding the explanation correctly....what are my options if I need to use 6 or more wireless products simultaneously? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted January 19, 2010 Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 how do the line 6 units actually compare to the better known mic brands like shure or senheiser as far as mic capsule quality and sound are concerned? im curious about these mics myself...but as a lead vocalist im a little picky about my specific mic sound...say comparably to an beta 58 shure model..because thats what i use and like right now. i like a mic that cuts through and sounds clear..thats why i choose the beta 58 over the standard sm58..does this mic stand up in mic sound quality as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted January 19, 2010 Members Share Posted January 19, 2010 So what are some good products (resonably priced) that fall in this now banned list? I am in Canada and am gonna be keeping my eyes open for someone to want to unload a wireless mic or 2 and a couple wireless guitar packs for cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted January 20, 2010 Members Share Posted January 20, 2010 IIRC, it's around 250uW @ 3m for VHF and somewhere around 100uW un UHF. I will have to look it up. The transmitter power was 50mW maximum, subject to limitations on ERP (effective radiated power).Maybe Karl can help out here. Actually, it's the other way around: 50 mW for VHF and 250 mW for UHF, at the output of the transmitter. What it looks like is that the FCC is opening up a blanket exemption for all unlicensed users, as long as they are below 50 mW, and they can request a waiver. Licensed users, it appears, can go above that, as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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