Cupping of the Mic: Part Two

[MyNameIsRyan]

This is sort of in response to the preview post of this type...

 

The singer in my band consistently puts a fist around his mic. In some cases it provides a home-made bullhorn effect, but he is often told not to by sound guys. I've never heard a good explanation of why it shouldn't be done.

 

If it helps, this is the mic we use for live shows for our band: Sennheiser E945 Supercardioid Dynamic Microphone

 

So... why shouldn't it be done?

[srp72ee]

Feedback....

 

Can be done for effect momentarily, but not continuously.

[dennis a]

As a test, set your system up and hold the microphone about 1" from the ball/screen and then speak into it. Now, grab the mic by the ball/screen with a fist covering most of it and speak into it. Notice the difference? And that is in addition to the feedback factor caused by cupping the mic.

 

Dennis

[Coaster]

sounds like crap. reeks of amateur if used more than briefly.

[soul-x]

The reason it creates feedback issues is that it essentially turns the cardiod pattern of the mic into a more "omni-like" pattern. The mic relies on a series of vents behind the capsule to determine its rejection. They cannot function when blocked off.

[Shaster]

There is a technical explanation as to why cupping the mic in the rear will increase the chances of feedback. For the life of me, I can't remember it. But cupping does promote feedback, especially if you're on the verge. The explanation might be on the Shure or Crown site, can't remember (again). Something about interfering with the mics ability to reject feedback because it interferes with the pick-up pattern of the mic or...... you better look it up:)

 

And of course it instantly turns an expensive mic into a piece of junk.

 

Best use for cupping? Comedians have fun with this effect, but it should stay in that bag IMO.

 

EDIT - I see soul-x has it together. that's what I was searching for, but I found only cobwebs.

[Cephkiller]

I cup the mic when singing whispered passages on a couple songs so I can get the breathy effect and still project. I have encountered fewer problems doing this than when the sound man cranks the mic to compensate. I have never done it other than for this reason and it only lasts for a verse or less.

[soul-x]

Honestly, if it produces a sound that the performer is looking for, I don't see any problem with it. I'm just trying to get the sound they want out there.

 

The problem is when this technique is combined with unrealistic expectations ("I can't f*ing hear myself, man"). They need to know they are creating a technical hurdle that can't be overcome with any amount of knob twiddling.

[Shaster]

 

I cup the mic when singing whispered passages on a couple songs so I can get the breathy effect and still project. I have encountered fewer problems doing this than when the sound man cranks the mic to compensate. I have never done it other than for this reason and it only lasts for a verse or less.

 

 

As always, there are exceptions to "the rule". Guess I'm just tired of people that cup the mic as a matter of course. Then they look at me when their monitor (which is by their request on the verge of feedback) starts to take off!

 

EDIT - the angry face is directed at MY cuppers not at Cephkiller, could be misconstrued.

[Coaster]

As always, there are exceptions to "the rule". Guess I'm just tired of people that cup the mic as a matter of course. Then they look at me when their monitor (which is by their request on the verge of feedback) starts to take off!

 

how do these dumbasses keep getting hired? why dont they have a clue?

 

also along these lines; people who request every damn instrument on stage loud as f*** in their wedge + their vocals louder than f*** and then complain that their ears hurt at the end of the night and they couldnt hear "X" after the first 20 minutes. UH, DUH

[bassred]

how do these dumbasses keep getting hired? why dont they have a clue? also along these lines; people who request every damn instrument on stage loud as f*** in their wedge + their vocals louder than f*** and then complain that their ears hurt at the end of the night and they couldnt hear "X" after the first 20 minutes. UH, DUH

Had the opposite once. Jazz trio. Did sound check (Large outdoor stage/field) and they said that the bass and drums were too loud (because you know the musician on stage has a better idea of what the mix sounds like than the FOH guy... ) They had a monitor engineer, she was asking them what they needed. 'We just mix ourselves, it's no big deal' was all they said (I guess they thought it would be the same as a small stage restaurant gig...)..

 

At the end of the night, the bass player was packing his rig and bitching up a storm about how he couldn't hear anything... blah blah blah.. I stepped outside of the professional bounds and gave him his what-haves... They could have asked for anything at all to clean up the mix, and I advised him to let his ego go BEFORE he gets on my stage again. Hacks. and I don't care who he was backing up (She *guitar player* thought pretty highly of herself too... and it was jazz jam stuff, lots of it sounded like noise to me.)

[Flogger59]

I've also seen dumbass sound guys cause their own problems, too. One memorable event involved soundcheck starting with the following question. "Drummer, how much snare do you want in the wedge?" Snare? Dude, it's a foot from his face! Needless to say when we got to vocal levels (last), the monitor rig was way louder than FOH.

[Coaster]

 

I've also seen dumbass sound guys cause their own problems, too. One memorable event involved soundcheck starting with the following question. "Drummer, how much snare do you want in the wedge?" Snare? Dude, it's a foot from his face! Needless to say when we got to vocal levels (last), the monitor rig was way louder than FOH.

 

 

i often have drummers that want snare in their wedge (?) whats your point? the band has control over what goes in the wedges, most of the time i find them way too loud.

[stevie j]

 

"Drummer, how much snare do you want in the wedge?" Snare? Dude, it's a foot from his face! Needless to say when we got to vocal levels (last), the monitor rig was way louder than FOH.

 

 

Monitors being louder than FOH is quite normal in

 

I work mainly as a monitor guy, drums are surprisingly quiet compared to the 2 100W 4x12s and a 300w 8x10 beside the drummer or with the spill from the rear of the PA.

 

When you are working with drummers used to the big stage sound, they need it at every gig. That is why washout bands who've reformed after stadium gigs who not play clubs are so loud.

[soul-x]

 

I've also seen dumbass sound guys cause their own problems, too. One memorable event involved soundcheck starting with the following question. "Drummer, how much snare do you want in the wedge?" Snare? Dude, it's a foot from his face! Needless to say when we got to vocal levels (last), the monitor rig was way louder than FOH.

 

 

The majority of bands in small settings are appreciably louder on stage than in the house. They really want the monitors way louder than the house, too -- and very often the inclusion of their already blasting instruments which are just feet from their head.

 

The soundguy caught a break the night he got you guys and didn't know it.

[Mogwix]

 

I've also seen dumbass sound guys cause their own problems, too. One memorable event involved soundcheck starting with the following question. "Drummer, how much snare do you want in the wedge?" Snare? Dude, it's a foot from his face! Needless to say when we got to vocal levels (last), the monitor rig was way louder than FOH.

 

I tend to mix monitors more than FOH, and I've ripped the faces off a few bands with sheer volume on stage. They walk in and see the tiny little SRX712M's on stage... not realizing the kind of output these little bastards are capable of.