voicelive and feedback

[qcb79]

not sure if this is the right section for this but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with tc helcion voicelive? I have problems with this thing causing major feedback.

 

When using it in rehearsal, monitors only the second it gets kicked on it causes really bad feedback. as soon as we bypass it no problems, tried moving away from the monitor, pretty much pulling the entire eq back to nothing. I dont know what else to try.

 

the only thing we are running is an Audio Technica mic into the voicelive with balanced lines into two channels of a behringer pmp2000 powered mixer and out to a yorkville passive wedge

[srp72ee]

Turn the volume all the way down and slowly work your way back up from there. What does it sound like at low volumes? This will give you a chance to tweek the EQ when the feedback initially starts. There may also be something in the gain structure or how your connected and routed into your mixer. Model of microphone might help too...

[Craig Vecchione]

Are you using compression and/or effects, or just EQ?

[RoadRanger]

One usually runs the effects only to the mains and not to the monitors for this very reason - plus most vocalists sing better if they can hear their voice dry. If you're trying to run vocal effects from the stage, well either get IEMs or kinda guess at what it sounds like out front and hope for the best .

[qcb79]

the mic is an audio technica atm410, not using any fx on the board, just the eq which is pretty limited since it's only 9 bands. the way I have it set up is the mic into the voicelive and then it runs two balanced 1/4" cables out into two seperate channels on the board. the gain on the input to the channels are both set at about 90% and then when i turn up the main volume on the board I slowly turn up and as it starts to feedback i cut which ever freq is causing the feedback but that only goes so far and I end up cutting almost every freq on the eq.

 

RR - yeh I see what you mean about running the fx to the mains only, problem here is that it's just rehearsal , we havent started giggin and we dont have any mains right now, just the monitors. we're trying to get used to the harmonizer and figure out which setting work for which songs and tweak the freakin thing. it has a -20db limiter switch and a mic level knob on the back of the unit so I may just have to keep dickin around with that until I can get some kind of control of the feedback. I'll keep running the fx to the mains in mind though, thanks.

 

still learning sound as I go, slowly, theres a hell of a lot to learn.

[dboomer]

So by using the voicelive you are actually outputting more level and that has just pushed you over the threshold for feedback.

 

All you can do is the standard best practices for managing feedback ... or leave it in bypass

[qcb79]

yep, i think thats pretty much what it boils down to, kick on the harmonizer and it boosts the signal to the board and we get instant feedback not just a little, the kind where you dive for the gain knob on the board to keep your ear drums from splitting.

 

guess all we can do is tweak the settings on it at low volume outside of rehearsal and then run it through the FOH when we start gigging.

[Rezrover]

I was looking at that model wondering if that would happen. I was looking at the Voice Doubler for a while, the rack mount effect. After looking at that manual, I would have went: Mic--> MixWiz-->MixWiz Direct out-->Voice Doubler Input-->Voice Doubler Stereo Output-->Two Open Channels on the MixWiz. You would at least have better control of your gains and output levels. But I never got around to getting one.

[Jerry007]

It seems that there would be some advantage to using the unit in an effects loop. That way you still have a totally dry signal to work with and can control the processed signal separately.

 

If you can't use a send/return on the mixer, maybe you can split the signal before hitting the effects unit?

[OneEng]

What kind of mic specifically are you using and where are you placing your speakers (what kind of layout do you have at practice)?

 

When you engage the harmonies, does the volume actually go up? If so, you may need to adjust the level for the harmonies (and or your lead vocals).

 

Do you have more than one microphone?

[qcb79]

mic - audio technica atm410, dynamic cardioid

practice setup is hard to explain but basically even with just the vocalist and monitor, which is about 3-4 ft ahead of her and the back of the mic is at a 45 degree angle to the monitor it still feeds back like crazy.

 

when the harmonizer is on, the volume doesnt change but feedback is almost instant. I tried it with the output from the harmonizer into two seperate channels and into just one channel designed for stereo input. same thing only i cant get much volume from the stereo channel for some reason.

 

I also tried what RR suggested and fed the output to another speaker using it as a main and thats about the only thing that seemed to solve the problem

[OneEng]

It sounds like you have things setup OK. You aren't using a cheep POS microphone either. While there are better, I suspect the mic isn't your problem.

 

I agree that running the dry mix to your monitor will help, it isn't as satisfying an experience (I use IEM's, but like to hear things like they are coming out the mains).

 

I have a TC Electronics M-One XL that I use for reverb/delay on the main mix. I have also used my TC Helicon VoiceWorks for primary vocal efx and harmony. I found that the compressor can easily cause feedback. If you can live without it, simply edit your patch to turn it off and see if this makes any difference (it did with my rig).

 

The eq can also have a big effect. If you take a bit of the highs off on the channel eq, you may have better gain before feedback.

 

Finally, try singing as close to the mic as possible and staying there as much as possible. This will give your vocals more warmth, will reduce feedback, and will lower the amount of stage noise your mic picks up. If you sing any distance from the mic, you will need quite a high gain on the mic to pick up your vocals. This will really cause issues when you use floor wedges.

 

Good luck. Hope you can get around the problem.

[abzurd]

I use a VoiceLive2 at every show and every practice, EQ'd and with full reverb and delay. It's all good. The only time I experience feedback is when using the bandpass presets (megaphone/telephone effect) which isn't all that often.

 

As Don said, it's a hotter signal. You'll likely have more gain before feedback in a gig situation as the room will be larger, higher ceilings, etc but it's still something you should dial in before taking the stage.

 

An external 31 band EQ for the monitors is also key. Make cuts where you find the feedback and you should be able to get the gain up to a reasonable level.

 

Oh, I didn't see what you were using for speakers. If they're peizo loaded instead compression drivers, you may have more trouble. Piezos have pretty uneven response and can have large spikes in sensitivity. This makes them harder to ring out and generally have to be kept lower in overall volume.

[qcb79]

thanks for the tips, I'm still trying to learn how to set this thing up, still haven't figured out how to get rid of the pitch corrector. But anyway, I tried everything I can think of, pulled back the highs on the eq, and on the channel, cut the mic gain from the voicelive, nothing seems to help. even when I manage to get it set to where it isnt causing feedback, as soon as she gets close to the mic it starts screechin again.

 

I only have the built in 9 band eq for the monitors and with this mixer there isnt much control on the monitors. we can do without the harmonizer in practice just fine, we just wanted to mess with it and learn how to use it before trying to run it at a gig.

 

I'm pretty much a PA system noob so there is that too. I'll try and turn off the limiter and see if that helps at all.

 

BTW: the mixer is a behringer pmp2000 http://www.behringer.de/EN/Products/PMP2000.aspx

[OneEng]

It is rare when you find any system that can refrain from feedback in a closed area with multiple microphones under all volume levels.

 

Even using in-ear monitors, in a basement, I can't turn my system ALL the way up without getting feedback.

 

I believe that if you figure out how to tweak the presets in the VL, you should be able to eliminate your feedback at least to similar levels as you would get without it in the chain.

 

There are also feedback eliminators that you could use. These are "smart" real time eq's that search for feedback and quickly put a tweak to eq that squashes the offending frequency before it feeds back.

 

You can get one on e-bay for around $150-200

 

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A2560&_nkw=feedback+eliminator&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1