Would you use a click-track live?

[Toto99]

Since the average drummer loses / gains about 6bpm per minute, I'm toying with the idea of getting our drummer to play to a click track for gigs. He's a great drummer, but I saw an unsigned band recently whose drummer was playing to a click and they sounded absolutely amazing and professional; the tempo was machine-perfect.

 

We play fast-paced speed metal / hard rock, so I think the click is more worthwhile than it would be in bands of other slower styles, especially bands which rely more on the "groove" than on the speed.

 

Thoughts?

[lifeloverwg]

It works for our drummer. She uses a Rolls PM300 for self adjusting the balance of her vocal mic, click track and monitor mix to her IEM.

 

Winston

[jgthatsme]

I don't like playing live to a click track. Everyone in the band has to be in synch. I've seen the train come off the tracks and it's not pretty when one member, and then another, etc. lose the click.

 

I prefer to use a tempo ref or a beat bug which tells me where I'm playing rather than dictating the tempo to me. http://www.temporef.com/

[scarecrowbob]

using a click live is kind of backwards, to me at least.

 

In performance and recording, most folks that could use a click don't need one and most folks that need a click couldn't use one.

 

The fact that the drummer was playing to a click probably says more about practice habits than performance benefits:

 

in private practice, most people that could use a click are practicing with a metronome, and a lot of the folks who can't use a click don't own/religiously practice with a metronome.

[Unalaska]

I play in bands that use them, only to sync up with a sequence though. If your drummer has issues with playing consistently then that's his issue. It's ok for a song to stretch a click or two but it isn't ok beyond that.

[Jesse G]

I'm pretty sure In Flames' and Avenged Sevenfold's drummers both play to a click track live.

 

In Flames is just a force to be reckoned with live, a band that truly sounds better live than their recordings. A7X isn't my favorite but they also are able to match their recordings with their live performances and I'm pretty sure the drummer(RIP) had a click track in his headphones.

[Dogoth]

I've been toying with playing to a click track (I'm a drummer as well). For me it's not hard to keep my tempo solid, I only do it because there are a couple of trax songs that have sporadic horn parts that I've written and it's the only way to keep everything in place. The thing I don't like is (we're not high tech enough to have I.E.s in our little kicks band), I have to CRANK the volume so much into 1 ear that If I had to do it all night, I'd lose my hearing (and we're NOT a loud band by most standards). Luckily it's only a couple of songs.

 

I DO own a divice called a Tempo Referee (a new version of an old device called a Russian/Dragon). They are sometimes called a beat bug. It does have a flashing metronome to start songs properly but what it really does is (via an inexpensive piezzo PU that tapes to your snare drum) is give you an acurate readout of BPM (more like a speedometer). It turns out my meter isn't bad at all (I usualy hold it within 1 or 2 BPM fast or slow). That's OK music should breath a little but it will tell you what you're doing at any given time. I love this device (I have the majoriety of our songs cataloged with a BPM that we set at rehersal) and if it ever breaks, I'd buy another on in a heartbeat (that would be 60 bpm :>). The top end one (the one I'd suggest) is around $100 complete. So far it's lasted about a year (no battery change yet). Here's the link:

 

Tempo Referee

[Shaster]

The tempo reference thing sounds interesting, as to a hard and fast click...

 

If you're playing to tracks, then it's a necessary evil. If you're not why bother?

 

I played in a band for ten years with half the songs clicked. It was a humbling experience for some of the drummers that came through that band, while others had no problem.

 

FYI, and IMO most people prefer drummers that speed up, at least a little bit.

 

Once in a while I play with a certain drummer that has almost perfect time (he does lots of session work). I notice that the singers at the gigs he's on get antsy when the end of the song arrives and the tempo hasn't sped up. They're looking for that extra bit of energy that a tempo creep will provide.

 

As a matter of fact, I would sometimes put in a tempo creep right into my sequences to give it a live feel.

 

Anyway YMMV.

[tlbonehead]

I would love to use one at least for a few songs. Not because the drumers I've had were terribly inconsistent, but mainly just to start and play the song at the ideal speed all the time.

[tlbonehead]

anyone here just use a visual flashing light as a speed setter?

[guitarharv52]

 

anyone here just use a visual flashing light as a speed setter?

 

 

Several years ago I played in a band where the drummer used one with no noticeable problems or any that I remember.

[basschaplain]

One of my past bands tried a flashing light visual only to one band member.

Trouble was when he looked away and we got off the beat even a little, it became more of a hindrance. So it wasn't any more helpful for us than a click track.

I have been in bands that used click tracks when recording. It took getting used to before I quit sounding wooden.

Personally, I think of click tracks as a crutch. It is a challenge indeed to remain at the same tempo, but that's part of growing.

Also, in live performances, sometimes it can help to speed up or slow down on some songs. But then, my early years in music was in church, orchestra, and jazz, where tempo changes are written into the music or accepted when felt (jazz).

[tacdryver]

Not being a drummer I really don't know how drummers get it right, but I am finding that many of the songs played are started a little slow or fast, and certainly not consistent...so of course when you do the 'The Breeze' at say half speed of the way Skynard did it, it just sounds wrong...

 

It makes sense to me that the drummer should know...somehow that this song needs to be played at 120 bpm, 103, ect, and that would drive the whole band a little tighter...

[Jon Hiller]

A friend of mine who used to play with Keith Urban used a click live, but I don't remember if it was because they were playing to a sequence or if he just did it to make him more solid.

[Cortfan]

In my last two bands, the drummer did a lot of vocals, so once we locked in, (I'm the bass player) I would keep time. If he got out, he could hear or feel my bass and get back in time. It seemed to work pretty well.

[1tribe]

Funny story, I really dont use them live and off and on for practice. Well one of our (ex)singers was complaining about me getting off time so I started practicing with a click. One day he complained again, Haha, I was dead on track, no fills and we found out just how late he was on time himself. He never complained again!

[Dogoth]

One of the things I learned a long time ago was that different styles & songs require a different "feel". It this case I'm speaking of where the drummer/bass (and sometimes other rhythm instruments) play in relation to to the rest of the band. Funky slow blues is behind the beat. I don't mean draging but BEHIND where everyone else is playing. Some up tempo stuff is very front edge. It's like either pulling the band along or pushing them. In the end the tempo remains relativle stable but it gives the song a certain "feel" (some might call it the pocket). I'm talking about 10 - 30 ms (less than a 128th note).

 

I've seen this phenomenon many times on recordings (where you can expand and visualy see where in time everyone is playing). Possibly the idea of speeding a song up towards the end is more a matter of shifting from the back to the front edge of the beat (for excitment). It's a very subtle thing but it can dictate whether people dance or not. I have even quantized tracks and then purposly moved the whole track (or possibly just the verse or chorus) just a chad back (or forward) to change the pocket of the song. IMHO Music SHOULD breath a bit (sometimes even tempo wise) or it sounds like everyone is playing to a click track :>).

 

Just my .02

 

P.S. I sing as well. When I sing and play at the same time, perfect tempo sometimes goes out the window (that's why I got the beat bug :>).

[lifeloverwg]

anyone here just use a visual flashing light as a speed setter?

 

My wife's drummer's click machine has that capability and she reverts to it easily when we run into situations where she doesn't or can't use her IEM.

 

Their set lists include song title, BPM, key and a color code for which guitar (tuning) the rhythm player uses. Geezer brains need reminders....

 

Winston

[stix 518]

We have a couple of songs where I have to play to a click because of the sequencing... comes through my iem only. Sometimes I get off click but generally it takes a couple of bars and we're right back on track. I kinda like it cuz it allows us to be a little more versatile in our song choices.

 

Stix

[qcb79]

I could play with a click but then the rest of the band would be screwed by actually having to stay in perfect time. it's easier for all of us if we have that little ebb and flow going on.

 

if I were in a prog/math rock band I'd play with a click

[Craig Vecchione]

 

One of the things I learned a long time ago was that different styles & songs require a different "feel". It this case I'm speaking of where the drummer/bass (and sometimes other rhythm instruments) play in relation to to the rest of the band. Funky slow blues is behind the beat. I don't mean draging but BEHIND where everyone else is playing. Some up tempo stuff is very front edge. It's like either pulling the band along or pushing them. In the end the tempo remains relativle stable but it gives the song a certain "feel" (some might call it the pocket). I'm talking about 10 - 30 ms (less than a 128th note). I've seen this phenomenon many times on recordings (where you can expand and visualy see where in time everyone is playing). Possibly the idea of speeding a song up towards the end is more a matter of shifting from the back to the front edge of the beat (for excitment). It's a very subtle thing but it can dictate whether people dance or not. I have even quantized tracks and then purposly moved the whole track (or possibly just the verse or chorus) just a chad back (or forward) to change the pocket of the song. IMHO Music SHOULD breath a bit (sometimes even tempo wise) or it sounds like everyone is playing to a click track :>). Just my .02 P.S. I sing as well. When I sing and play at the same time, perfect tempo sometimes goes out the window (that's why I got the beat bug :>).

 

 

You can still play behind the beat with a click. The point of the click is to have a consistent beat for the drummer if his "internal" metronome sucks. As a bassist, it's nearly impossible for me to lock with a drummer who inconsistently changes tempo. I can't play behind his beat if he's changing it.

 

Of course, a click would make it very difficult, if not impossible, to play songs that have intentional gradual tempo changes, like Pink Floyd's Money,which speeds up almost imperceptably.

[jgthatsme]

As a bassist, it's nearly impossible for me to lock with a drummer who inconsistently changes tempo.

 

Huh????

[RoadRanger]

Huh????

It's no fun to play bass in a band where you have to constantly try to pull the beat back to where it belongs - you might as well be in a !@#$ing Bluegrass band . When you have a drummer that can keep the beat you can play "off" it .

[Craig Vecchione]

Exactly. "Can't hold no groove if you ain't got no pocket."

[jgthatsme]

So then, as a bassist is it easier for you to lock with a drummer who consistently changes tempo?