STICK WITH RMX, OR GO XTI?

[CHIP ROBERTS]

Well, the weight of my RMX amps is really gettin' on my nerves. I have three 2450's and a 4050HD. I need to get another amp for my pair of SRX 722's. The RMX 2450 just isn't enough. It hasn't been nearly as bad as I thought it would, but it's time to bump things up a bit.

 

Right now, I'm running things this way:

 

RMX 2450 - monitor 1 & 2 (MP 415's)

RMX 2450 - monitor 3 & 4 (MP 415's)

RMX 2450 - SRX 722's (in stereo)

RMX 4050HD - SRX 728's (paralleled - mono subs, DRPA)

 

I thought about getting another 2450 so I could bridge a 2450 into each sub, and put the 4050HD on the 722's. But it's just too much weight. I'm a one man show and there are some jobs I do where there are steps. Plus, it's hard enough to push the amp rack up my ramp. I have a cargo van, not a box truck with a nice, long, not steep ramp.

 

So I've been thinking about switching to XTI's. I've never used an XTI. I could really care less about the internal DSP, but I love the WEIGHT, power output, and the power draw seems pretty decent.

 

So, I could order a PLX 3602 (21 pounds, I think?) and have spare 2450, but man, I just don't know. I've used 3602's plenty of times. I love the eas of use, but I didn't think they sound any better than the RMX amps. If I went the XTI route, I would:

 

 

XTI 4000 - monitor 1 & 2 (MP 415's)

XTI 4000 - monitor 3 & 4 (MP 415's)

XTI 4000 - SRX 722's (in stereo)

XTI 6000 - SRX 728's (paralleled - mono subs, DRPA)

 

 

I've searched and have been reading old posts for 3 days trying to get some answers to these questions below. A lot of my other questions were answered, but not these...

 

 

 

Is there much of a learning curve a learning curve on the XTI's?

 

If anyone has used the XTI 6000 on 728's, what did you think?

 

Is there a big difference in SOUND QUALITY between the XTI's and PLX on top speakers?

 

Is there a big difference in POWER DRAW between the XTI's and PLX on top speakers?

 

 

I'm stuck with choosing between the amps that American Musical Supply and Zzounds offers, because they have that nice 'ol payment plan. Saving up 'till I can just go out and buy used IT 4000's isn't realistic because I have a new series of events I'm doing. And I need to at least get another amp by 2-12...

[RoadRanger]

I thought about getting another 2450 so I could bridge a 2450 into each sub, and put the 4050HD on the 722's.

Cheap fix is sell one 2450 and buy two Peavey IPR-1600's for monitors . That'll lose you ~30 lbs and cost

[Unalaska]

That's really heavy! PLX's would be the best way to go IMHO. Nothing wrong with XTi's, I'm just more familiar with the QSC line. For starters, split your amps up into 2 cases, both on wheels.

 

XTi options:

XTi2K for mon

XTi1k HF

Xti4K MF

Xti6x LF

 

Tri-amping using the DRPA's settings will help a lot too. The boxes do sound great passive and can be even better tri-amped.

 

QSC rec:

PLX2402 mons

PLX1202 HF

PLX3402(3002) MF

PL4.0 LF

 

Or Peavey whenever they decide to ship

IPR3000 mons

IPR1600 HF

IPR4500 MF

IPR6000 LF

[agedhorse]

I would go with all PLX's personally.

 

The 3602 works well on 722's IMO.

 

A one man show with all that stuff... that's a recipe for getting seriously hurt at a gig. What then?

[Vinny D]

The XTI series can be found pretty cheap out there these days (under $700 for the XTI4000) I have never used them as I am a QSC person myself.

The biggest complaints that I have read (and they seem pretty consistant) is that the limiters in the XTI are not the greatest.

But...you can also just bypass the DSP on the XTI amps as you have a drive rack.

 

I personaly though would wait another month or so and see if Peavey actually ships there larger IPR series amps and if Crown starts shipping there new XLS series amps.

 

There may be a LOT of good used amps hitting the market soon that can be had on the cheap!

[srp72ee]

Economical as the new light weight Class D amps are, it will be difficult to give the old boat anchors away.

[RoadRanger]

Economical as the new light weight Class D amps are, it will be difficult to give the old boat anchors away.

You can still get $350+ for a nice RMX2450 and 700-900 for a 4050. In permanent installations weight isn't a big deal and the younger guys seem to like carrying stoopid heavy amp racks around . Now, as to what they will be worth in 6 months - well that could be a big change .

[tombo007]

I have 3 XTi's, my guitar player spilled my beer on the front of a XTi's 1000 last Fridday night during set up. I turned it on and it didn't work, LCD frozen, no sound from the amp. Took it home and the next day I plugged it in and the LCD light worked and there was souind. I left the amp on for a couple hours that day and used it that night and no problems......I guess I'm lucky....not.......That Friday night I left my pedal board at home and to play with no effects......life goes on!

[agedhorse]

 

I have 3 XTi's, my guitar player spilled my beer on the front of a XTi's 1000 last Fridday night during set up. I turned it on and it didn't work, LCD frozen, no sound from the amp. Took it home and the next day I plugged it in and the LCD light worked and there was souind. I left the amp on for a couple hours that day and used it that night and no problems......I guess I'm lucky....not.......That Friday night I left my pedal board at home and to play with no effects......life goes on!

 

 

You were lucky until it really fails and in the most embarassing way too. Murphy's law.

 

That's a ticking time bomb.

[KF650SB1000]

 

I'm stuck with choosing between the amps that American Musical Supply and Zzounds offers, because they have that nice 'ol payment plan. Saving up 'till I can just go out and buy used IT 4000's isn't realistic because I have a new series of events I'm doing. And I need to at least get another amp by 2-12...

 

 

 

Are you doing this as a Business or for a Hobby?

 

If you are doing this as a business, why don't you apply for a 'new small business' loan?

 

I am 100% the interest rate is much better than AMS or ZZounds.

[KF650SB1000]

RMX to PLX or XTi will be an upgrade in itself, save a few pounds and a cleaner sound.

 

However, if you where to upgrade to the Itech and PL's; would be and even better upgrade. The PL & IT's sound slightly better and draw less power and are better for the 'in demand' situations that may arise.

[agedhorse]

The PL and PLX draw just about the same.

[kevinnem]

don't get a loan/finance, .. not in this economy. rent from someone else if you have to, don't worry you cna negotiate a good deal.

 

I am a HUGE fan of the XTI's now. I BI-AMP almost everything, the onboard DSP has saved me a ton of rackspace, and cost. It is not a complete as say a drive rack, by still has a lot of stuff in there.

 

I will sy taht power wise, it seems a little less powerfull then other amps of equall "power", maybe it is because of the way they "round up" the number to the "4000watt/name" class.

 

 

Qsc would be great as well.

 

 

My opinion would be that IF you see value in the onboard DSP , then teh XTI would be good for you. Other wise, I think the QSC is better.

 

again, . debt = bad.

[KF650SB1000]

 

don't get a loan/finance, .. not in this economy. rent from someone else if you have to, don't worry you cna negotiate a good deal. again, . debt = bad.

 

 

 

Whats the difference in a small business loan, store payment plan or a credit card...

 

its all debt.

 

For tax purposes, you can claim the interest on a business loan... but you can not claim credit card interest nor a store payment plan interest.

[agedhorse]

The main difference I can think of is the interest rate...

[kevinnem]

double post

[kevinnem]

 

Whats the difference in a small business loan, store payment plan or a credit card... its all debt. For tax purposes, you can claim the interest on a business loan... but you can not claim credit card interest nor a store payment plan interest.

 

 

sorry, my intent was to say, that I recommend saving the cash up , and buying it, .. don't use any sort of debt financing. Not for this, . not right now.

 

Also, in canada at least, my understanding is you can deduct any interest paid that is associated with a debt for investment purposes. Be it credit card, bank, or from "Vinny downtown"

[dboomer]

I don't expect any power amps to sound better than any others ... as long as you don't go into limiting. How it limits and recovers is the part you hear. So unless you are upping the power enough for that to happen (and can handle all that is associated with it) I don't care what you buy ... you won't hear it.

 

I doubt that even with more efficient amps power wise it will make much real world difference.

 

Now weight ... that's where I sign on!!! I don't wanna carry any boat anchors;)

[CHIP ROBERTS]

Crap, Zzound.com has the XTI 4000 for only $719.96 !

 

I've heard (well, read...) quite a quite few people (including a couple buddy's from the Indianapolis area) say that the XTI 4000 clips way too early? Hard to tell why that would be.

 

I haven't heard anyone say that about the PLX 3602. I've never had that problem with the 3602's. But man, the price on the XTI 4000's is hard to pass up though. I could order two of 'em right now...

 

I can't decide...

[Outloud]

Hey Chip I'm from Anderson as well. Sorry I cant help on the XTI's I use Crest

amps. Let me know if there is any other way I can help ya.

Tracy Gray

 

P.S. It's a small World.

[kevinnem]

Crap, Zzound.com has the XTI 4000 for only $719.96 ! I've heard (well, read...) quite a quite few people (including a couple buddy's from the Indianapolis area) say that the XTI 4000 clips way too early? Hard to tell why that would be. I haven't heard anyone say that about the PLX 3602. I've never had that problem with the 3602's. But man, the price on the XTI 4000's is hard to pass up though. I could order two of 'em right now... I can't decide...

they clip, . or the clip lights go on? Different things, though most people don't realise.

 

Amazing how much hearing happens with our eyes.

[agedhorse]

 

they clip, . or the clip lights go on? Different things, though most people don't realise. Amazing how much hearing happens with our eyes.

 

 

Ummm, maybe not. The clip detectors are true loss of feedback detectors, when they come on, the amp is clipping.

[kevinnem]

 

Ummm, maybe not. The clip detectors are true loss of feedback detectors, when they come on, the amp is clipping.

 

 

Clip Indicator: Red LED turns on at the threshold of

audible distortion.

 

AS per crown.

 

 

Not sure if this small detial means somethign when compared to the QSC. But in my experiance, I am only able to hear the effect, when the cliiplight is on for consistance and substaind periods (IE its really bad).

[RoadRanger]

Clip Indicator: Red LED turns on at the threshold of audible distortion. AS per crown.

Like all other manufacturers their docs are to be taken with a grain of salt at best. I'll betcha a beer that that is true only when the clip limiters are disabled. All modern amps with clip limiters convert the clip indicator lights into clip limiter lights when the clip limiters are enabled so only indicate that the clip limiters are limiting to prevent clipping.

[agedhorse]

 

Like all other manufacturers their docs are to be taken with a grain of salt at best. I'll betcha a beer that that is true only when the clip limiters are disabled. All modern amps with clip limiters convert the clip indicator lights into clip limiter lights when the clip limiters are enabled so only indicate that the clip limiters are limiting to prevent clipping.

 

 

Correct, the limiting is generally detected by the loss of feedback detector too, with override from DSP.