Tom Toms

[Flogger59]

I high pass at 100-125, they sing at 250 or so.

[flanc]

 

When micing (is it micing or miking?) a drum kit, where do the toms come into the EQ? Are they mostly mids? Last time I miked (miced?) up the toms the low rumble NEVER stopped. Just booooooooooooom and into a feedback loop!

 

 

Do they ring a lot? For rock toms, I use an e604 with a gate and very little eq.

[flanc]

No gate...hit 'em with some moon gels.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--RTOMG

[dboomer]

It's micing!

[RoadRanger]

Do they replace the ringers or just go along with them?

Yes.

[agedhorse]

Mic as close as you can (reduces required gain) and I generally gate toms if I need a lot of whallop.

[imnotded]

I've used those mics before. I had one on an 18" floor tom and was getting the same thing you are hearing. I had moon gels on and still got the feedback. I just had to take a bit of the lows out of the EQ.

[qcb79]

this might help

piHi-bhdbOQ

 

the audio is off a little bit but theres 5 parts of the video on youtube

[Mogwix]

Don't muffle the toms... let them breathe!

 

Cut some low end at around 100Hz, cut out the mids at around 1k or 2k (this is the "papery" zone), and boost at around 4-5k.

 

If they're rumbling too much, use a gate. I don't have problems with toms doing a loop unless everything's way too loud. Cut that resonant freq out of your FOH EQ's.

[qcb79]

Forgot to tell ya video 5 is where he deals with toms

[dcastar]

As a drummer.... I absolutely HATE putting gel, rings, whatever on drums. Fundamentally you change the way the drum sounds. It's the job of the engineer to take the sound you give and make it sound good in the main and not change the sound coming to you, "cheating" to make it sound like something it is not in the first place.

 

Step 1) Drummer needs to learn how to tune his drums properly.

Step 2) User a high pass filter and a gate.

Step 3) EQ... EQ.... EQ............

Step 4) EQ more.

 

It didn't take me very long to dial-in my toms with EQ + Gates.... and I don't use any sort of muffling on my drums.

[flanc]

I hi-pass all but the floor tom.

[imnotded]

 

But toms shouldn't come through subs eh?

 

 

IMO thats a little subjective. I think floor toms through the subs sounds great depending on the music being played.

 

And as for moon gels changing the drum sound, sometimes thats the sound the drummer wants. Its like the argument over edrums. Some say they dont sound real while others say thats why they like them.

[dcastar]

 

Dcastar, so by using the high pass filter on my mixer, I'm saying I don't want toms coming through the subs at all right? I don't have the gate luxury right now, and have very limited eq through the mixer. I'll have to save my pennies for a better drum set up in the future. But toms shouldn't come through subs eh?

 

 

Not necessarily.... it depends on where you have your crossover set. If your mixer hi-passes at 80hz, and your crossover between subs & mains is 100hz, then from 80hz to 100hz, the toms are going thru the subs.

 

How many aux's does your mixer have... you might want to consider Aux-Feeding your subs. And only turning the aux channel up on the instruments that you want coming thru the subs.

[dcastar]

 

IMO thats a little subjective. I think floor toms through the subs sounds great depending on the music being played. And as for moon gels changing the drum sound, sometimes thats the sound the drummer wants. Its like the argument over edrums. Some say they dont sound real while others say thats why they like them.

 

 

There are plenty of drum heads on the market that will do the job for you. See: Evans EC2. Use heads that are made for the application, so there's no need to add an additional component in that changes the way a drum reverberates.

 

Put it this way -- You wouldn't put a piece of gel on a guitar string because it rings too much, would you??

[imnotded]

 

Put it this way -- You wouldn't put a piece of gel on a guitar string because it rings too much, would you??

 

 

No, but you would palm mute sometimes.

[dcastar]

 

Its the mixwiz3. I think it has 6 aux? And my main/sub set up is qsc so the xover is already set I guess.

 

 

 

Great board... the same one I have.... how many monitor mixes are you running? If you're running 4 of them, What you can do is open up the board and move the jumpers over to make Aux6 a Pre-Fader mix channel... then use Aux6 to send signal to the subs. Then the main L&R outs to feed the mains.

 

-edit- just read your post.... so if you wanted to... plug your subs into Aux 4 and aux feed them.

 

Otherwise, the MixWiz hi-passes at 80hz.... the QSC sub crosses over at 100hz, and you're back to the scenario I listed before with having 80hz - 100hz still in the subs. Which honestly.... isn't "too" big of deal unless the drums are incredibly boomy.... and again, that can be worked out by changing to different heads, or EQ'ing with the sweepable lo-mids on your board!!

[dcastar]

 

No, but you would palm mute sometimes.

 

 

In that case, you're still not changing the fundamental way the instrument creates noise. You are manually silencing it. I fail to see your argument.

 

If you need to manually silence a drum... use a gate, and EQ properly. Don't "cheat" by telling the drummer he has to change the way his drum sounds.

 

Here's another analogy... telling a guitarist that he needs to use nylon strings because his metal strings sound too harsh in the mix. This is a basic premises of sound / tone... the way the instrument reverberates and creates the sound.

[imnotded]

 

In that case, you're still not changing the fundamental way the instrument creates noise. You are manually silencing it. I fail to see your argument. If you need to manually silence a drum... use a gate, and EQ properly. Don't "cheat" by telling the drummer he has to change the way his drum sounds. Here's another analogy... telling a guitarist that he needs to use nylon strings because his metal strings sound too harsh in the mix. This is a basic premises of sound / tone... the way the instrument reverberates and creates the sound.

 

 

I will say that I agree with you that drums sound better without gels. I don't usually use them other than when practicing and I don't feel like tuning. But I think that gels have their place.

[imnotded]

 

I'm very weary about opening any of my gear. I'm just not that experienced. Most likely I'll destroy the gear and electrocute myself. I don't mind having it in the sub mix, because we like boomy drums. I just need to get rid of the out of control loop, which sounds like an EQ fix along with TURNING DOWN! Ha.

 

 

Changing the jumpers is a really easy thing to do. I think EQ would fix most of the problem though.

[lifeloverwg]

 

As a drummer.... I absolutely HATE putting gel, rings, whatever on drums. Fundamentally you change the way the drum sounds. It's the job of the engineer to take the sound you give and make it sound good in the main and not change the sound coming to you, "cheating" to make it sound like something it is not in the first place. Step 1) Drummer needs to learn how to tune his drums properly. Step 2) User a high pass filter and a gate. Step 3) EQ... EQ.... EQ............ Step 4) EQ more. It didn't take me very long to dial-in my toms with EQ + Gates.... and I don't use any sort of muffling on my drums.

 

 

What's the difference? Either way you're changing the way the drum sounds. It's not OK to change it with a piece of gel, but it is OK to change it with a bunch of EQ? I'm not following the reasoning....

 

Granted is the notion that a well tuned and well played drum shouldn't need much of either.

 

Winston

[Mogwix]

 

What's the difference? Either way you're changing the way the drum sounds. It's not OK to change it with a piece of gel, but it is OK to change it with a bunch of EQ? I'm not following the reasoning....

 

Muffling the drum changes the drum's sound and feel. I'm not a fan of having any muffling on my drums, whether external (moongels, rings) or internal (muffled heads like pinstripes (yuck), EC2's, etc.) because then the drums don't "sustain" and sing. Keep in mind, sustain is different than "ring". Use the right heads and tune your drums properly.

 

EQ is different because the mic right against the drum produces a sound that's unnatural. There's a huge spike at 100Hz and depending on the mic, it just has a frequency response that colours the sound of the drum. We use EQ to try to get that drum sound (that's coming from the mic) to sound more like it would if you were standing in front of the kit while it's being played.

[dcastar]

Muffling the drum changes the drum's sound and feel. I'm not a fan of having any muffling on my drums, whether external (moongels, rings) or internal (muffled heads like pinstripes (yuck), EC2's, etc.) because then the drums don't "sustain" and sing. Keep in mind, sustain is different than "ring". Use the right heads and tune your drums properly. EQ is different because the mic right against the drum produces a sound that's unnatural. There's a huge spike at 100Hz and depending on the mic, it just has a frequency response that colours the sound of the drum. We use EQ to try to get that drum sound (that's coming from the mic) to sound more like it would if you were standing in front of the kit while it's being played.

 

 

[KF650SB1000]

For Toms, here are a few of my tips and tricks for the Toms.

 

Mics:

Rack Toms: Audix D2's or Shure Beta56/57

Floor Toms: Audix D4 & D6

 

Inserts:

Gate - just enough to have the snare open it up

Comp - none

 

EQ'ing:

depends on the music, but very little.

75-100hz cut on the rack/smaller toms.

[gonzobassman]

I thought the high-pass on the MixWiz3 was 100 hz.? Have to read it up again,but at any rate all good info here.FWIW,a lot of times you are hearing that lo-end hum through the monitors only.With a louder band it is not decernable through FOH,but it has driven me nuts as a performer when its there because they all look at the bass player when something is amiss in the lo-end.