Members TKATS13 Posted January 28, 2010 Members Share Posted January 28, 2010 on a surge protector usually there's 2 lights...a green for power, and a red for grounding. If the red turns on, does it mean that it's working properly (no grounding problems), or does it indicate that there is some grounding problems? Last week at church my amp was making a lot of noise, and usually at home is not that noisy. I had it plugged into a surge protector, and the protector also had one of this adapters on the cord end.....i had my effects plugged into a different outlet (which is supposedly grounded) So at the end of the night i wasn't sure if what was causing the noise was the outlet where i plugged in the amp, or where i had my effects plugged in. So i plugged in the surge protector without the adapter into the outlet where i had my effects and the red light kept coming on...but when i put the adapter the red light would stay off. I thought if the light came on it meant there were groundng problems, but some ppl told me that by putting the adapter it defeats the purpose of having those outlets grounded. someone enlighten me..im confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted January 28, 2010 Members Share Posted January 28, 2010 Was that tab bent back or was it screwed to the outlet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted January 28, 2010 Members Share Posted January 28, 2010 If the light comes on with the "adapter" off, then the light indicates a WORKING ground. THROW THAT "ADAPTER" OUT RIGHT NOW. Given the complete lack of ungrounded outlets that exist today, its original purpose is completely obsolete. Sounds like a ground loop... try consolidating all of your gear to run off of one outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TKATS13 Posted January 29, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 If the light comes on with the "adapter" off, then the light indicates a WORKING ground. THROW THAT "ADAPTER" OUT RIGHT NOW. Given the complete lack of ungrounded outlets that exist today, its original purpose is completely obsolete. Sounds like a ground loop... try consolidating all of your gear to run off of one outlet. yea...i used to post here all the time about our sound problems at church. We're also supposed to get a new mixer, but our budget right now is tight and can't afford it. I believe that the mixer we have now is also a big cause of the noise we get through the PA. But about my amp, i guess i'm just gonna have to plug everything in one outlet and hope it works. thanks for the info...and one more thing which is not a big deal...but i realized the red light is for the power, and the green for the grounding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 29, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Given the complete lack of ungrounded outlets that exist today, Not so. There are plenty of residences and businesses that still have ungrounded service. It's especially common in small bars and clubs in buildings that have been around forever. In many AHJ's if a business or home isn't renovated there's no requirement to update existing wiring to a newer code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 29, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 I thought if the light came on it meant there were groundng problems, but some ppl told me that by putting the adapter it defeats the purpose of having those outlets grounded. someone enlighten me..im confused Yep, using an adapter that obviously eliminates the ground pin defeats the ground. The tab was intended to be screwed to the outlet cover, and the optimistic hope was that this connection would then continue to the outlet yoke, which then would connect to the outlet's box, which then connected to (maybe) metal conduit or armored cable, which then connected to the breaker panel, which then maybe possibly hopefully had a copper ground wire screwed to a water pipe that might make a ground connection to earth. This never worked. Steel is a relatively poor conductor in terms of resistance, and all those connections, which were designed for mechanical integrity but not electrical conductivity, corroded which increases resistance. It's no guess that you body presents a better path to ground than this mess would. And of course, all of this was based on the premise that you'd remove the cover plate screw and install the adapter with it. I'm 48, and I've never once seen one of these used as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TKATS13 Posted January 29, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 Yep, using an adapter that obviously eliminates the ground pin defeats the ground. The tab was intended to be screwed to the outlet cover, and the optimistic hope was that this connection would then continue to the outlet yoke, which then would connect to the outlet's box, which then connected to (maybe) metal conduit or armored cable, which then connected to the breaker panel, which then maybe possibly hopefully had a copper ground wire screwed to a water pipe that might make a ground connection to earth.This never worked. Steel is a relatively poor conductor in terms of resistance, and all those connections, which were designed for mechanical integrity but not electrical conductivity, corroded which increases resistance. It's no guess that you body presents a better path to ground than this mess would. And of course, all of this was based on the premise that you'd remove the cover plate screw and install the adapter with it. I'm 48, and I've never once seen one of these used as intended. dang...im 23 and i never really knew what was the purpose of using them...forgive my ignorance, but i thought the only reason was so that cords that have the ground pin could be plug into outlets that dont have that extra hole. I never made the connection with the whole grounding thing....wow, i feel dumb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 sorry for yelling & repeating but PLEASE THROW THIS ADAPTER OUT. DON'T USE IT. It's dangerous and and people can get hurt. The correct way of dealing with grounding issues is are isolation transformers or passive DI boxes such as these http://audiopile.net/products/DI_Boxes/DI_Boxes.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 dang...im 23 and i never really knew what was the purpose of using them...forgive my ignorance, but i thought the only reason was so that cords that have the ground pin could be plug into outlets that dont have that extra hole. I never made the connection with the whole grounding thing....wow, i feel dumb! Don't feel dumb- you were smart enough to see something happening, and to question it - that's a mark of intelligence, not stupidity. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 I always love the ground loop that travels from the mic and guitar strings via your lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 I always love the ground loop that travels from the mic and guitar strings via your lips. That ain't a ground loop, that's usually leaky Caps on a Tube amp. Go get it fixed. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 That ain't a ground loop, that's usually leaky Caps on a Tube amp. Go get it fixed.T I've had it happen with an acoustic > DI (passive) > mixer. No tubes anywhere. Either way its no fun lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 It's still not a ground loop - Those are about a 1V. What you're having is a failure in your grounding system, and something in the electronics is getting into your chassis grounds. Could be bad insulation, power etc. Or you've LIFTED your ground (liek using one of the cheater plugs pictures), thus creating an unsafe condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 I guess a ground loop wasnt a very good choice of words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TKATS13 Posted January 29, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 It's still not a ground loop - Those are about a 1V. What you're having is a failure in your grounding system, and something in the electronics is getting into your chassis grounds. Could be bad insulation, power etc. Or you've LIFTED your ground (liek using one of the cheater plugs pictures), thus creating an unsafe condition. Since we do have some DI boxes for acoustic guitars and just regular audio like from a pc or ipod, why is it not safe to use the LIFT switch? I only mess with those switches if the sound is noisy, but i believe we have it on GROUND. Also...today i was practicing again and my sound stopped working, and i realized the input on my guitar got loose and i dont know if a wire or something inside came off...maybe i was also getting all that noise last week. Like i said..i used to post here all the time about ways to make the sound better...so im just hoping we get the new mixer soon. I was thinking of a Allen & Heath mixer. I think for the price, they're one of the best ones out there. Or do you guys recommend something different cause right now we have a mackie and its a piece of crap. I would also want us to bring a technician or someone who can diagnose better why we're having so much noise and stuff...but like i said before, $$$ is an issue right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 what do you mean?...what was imnotded talking about? I've played before where the mic has shocked my lips if I got too close while touching my guitar strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 we do have some DI boxes, but do i need one going from the effects into my amp? thanks what do you mean?...what was imnotded talking about? Since we do have some DI boxes for acoustic guitars and just regular audio like from a pc or ipod, why is it not safe to use the LIFT switch? I only mess with those switches if the sound is noisy, but i believe we have it on GROUND. Also...today i was practicing again and my sound stopped working, and i realized the input on my guitar got loose and i dont know if a wire or something inside came off...maybe i was also getting all that noise last week. Like i said..i used to post here all the time about ways to make the sound better...so im just hoping we get the new mixer soon. I was thinking of a Allen & Heath mixer. I think for the price, they're one of the best ones out there. Or do you guys recommend something different cause right now we have a mackie and its a piece of crap. I would also want us to bring a technician or someone who can diagnose better why we're having so much noise and stuff...but like i said before, $$$ is an issue right now OK, Here's where it can get confusing- There are 2 Grounds in all audio systems - The Power Ground, and the Signal Ground. The power ground is there for your safety- that's what we are talking about not messing with. However, in some cases, it is acceptable to lift the ground from one end, and one end onlyof the line. you might lift the ground when a keyboard is plugged into it, or a line level from a Guitar amp etc. For computers, the best thing is a Isolation Transformer. Agedhorse up here sells them, I just bought a couple to replace some stolen gear. It's a good idea to always carry 2 in your Kit. As far as the leaky cap thing - What can happen is as the Capacitors in your tube amp get dried out, they may leak current to ground or the chassis of your amp. The ground Lug is designed to carry that current safely away from you. However, if you lift the ground tab, then there arises the potential to get a shock. If your amp is of vintage variety, then make sure it has a proper 3 prong cord, with the green wire attached to the chassis of the amp. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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