Theatre Rerigging

[mrjonny2]

Hi

I am the student at my school who has been place in charge of sound for the schools tech team

I was asked by the music department to write a list of required gear as the current gear was put in when the school was built about 10 years ago and has been used and abused

This is all tech for the theatre which holds between 400 and 600 people depending on whether the floor space is used for seating

there are certain things that have died

there are currently 6 speakers hung from the rigging there are 3 bars in the following configuration with 2 speakers in the centre of each facing out

 

---------------- wall

----------------First Rig above stage

 

 

----------------Second rig in centre of room

 

----------------Third Rig

 

 

----------------Backwall

4 of the speakers have died with possible ripped membranes

I am unsure of the speaker make and model as i cant really see ;S

The is one Yamaha P series Amp per rig all of which work perfectly

 

I was looking at replacing the speakers with a pair of Martin Audio OmniLine arrays at the front (one at each side) but was unsure how much extra equipment. I was told the current speaker cost about

[6Imzadi]

1) Find an install company

 

2)The GL-2800M is a monitor desk, you don't want that. The tascam is real nice. But, there is a steep learning curve on that.

 

3) Put monitors in the sound booth

 

4) Get an install company.

[B. Adams]

I think you're a little off base with the Omni Line array. Part of the name is "array", which means several speakers clustered together. Looking at the Martin Audio page, they can be used in arrays from 4 to 32. One box per side won't work very well.

 

Since this is a theatre environment, you might be better off if you buy 4-8 decent powered speakers that could be moved around and repositioned for different shows. If I was in your position, I'd look at the new EV ZXA1. It's a new powered version of the Zx1. It won't handle a rock musical, but for most theatrical reinforcement it should work great. It's small, lightweight, and they make a truss clamp for it that would make it simple to fly. They're very reasonably priced as well, at least in the US.

 

Your console choices seem reasonable, although the Tascam is an unusual choice compared to the others. The GL2800 seems to be the closest thing to what you have now.

[TimmyP]

Leave the booth to the lighting folks, and move FOH to the auditorium. One cannot mix sound for a room in which s/he cannot hear what the audience hears as they hear it.

[injected]

 

Leave the booth to the lighting folks, and move FOH to the auditorium. One cannot mix sound for a room in which s/he cannot hear what the audience hears as they hear it .

 

 

 

surprise surprise - not gonna happen. its like this in virtually every high school. i think we use ambient room mics into some monitors in the booth. not sure though.

 

a school i just moved from though got a $2million theater renovation and man is it incredible. they have some kind of jbl line arrays on each side and an ENORMOUS soundcraft console in the middle of the auditorium where it should be. also tons of lighting {censored}. Huge wall of amps in the back of the stage... various mic plugs in the ground. I love it. But anyhoo, i highly doubt any teachers/directors want to move all the gear to the auditorium rather than the booth

[agedhorse]

 

Leave the booth to the lighting folks, and move FOH to the auditorium. One cannot mix sound for a room in which s/he cannot hear what the audience hears as they hear it .

 

 

In booths like this, generally when something requires FOH mix position to be in the house, it's put there and lines are run to the house console on the booth.

 

I would suggest having the Ghost rebuilt and the speakers properly repaired. Then the entire installation gone over by a proper install company.

[mrjonny2]

thanks guys

yes i know its a terrible position

i have put down to get the windows replaced with ones that can open as moving the desk is not an option

there are 48 multicore lines from around the theatre there

there are monitors they are above the window

[6Imzadi]

You would be wise to get a install company on board. Why would the staff there set you in charge of something like this? Are they giving you the money for the repairs/ remodel?

[rwhealey]

Windows that open might actually make the problem worse- you think you can hear the house mix, but you really can't.

 

I ran into this problem mixing a musical this summer. I was in a booth with an open window, and every time I though the mix was right, the director would tell me from the house something was wrong. When I left the booth, he was always right.

 

The final mix sounded odd to me- but good in the house.

 

I strongly recommend digital for theater.

 

The EV Zx series have some really nice truss clamps, so they would be perfect for a black box situation- you can move and mount them just like lights.

 

Also, hire an company to help! We're trying to give you advice sitting behind the internet- we can't actually go in your space and take a look around.

[blsmn]

Windows in booths can work if done properly - here are a couple pics of the theatre here at school that we renovated about 8 years ago. We used roll up doors instead of a sliding glass set up - and as you can see used three rows of EAW JF60's for even house dispersion and "booth monitoring". It works quite well actually - very little difference between "in booth" sound and "in house" sound. Haven't had any issues or complaints from visiting techs also. While every space may not physically present itself to such a set-up, it works for us.

[agedhorse]

 

Windows in booths can work if done properly - here are a couple pics of the theatre here at school that we renovated about 8 years ago. We used roll up doors instead of a sliding glass set up - and as you can see used three rows of EAW JF60's for even house dispersion and "booth monitoring". It works quite well actually - very little difference between "in booth" sound and "in house" sound. Haven't had any issues or complaints from visiting techs also. While every space may not physically present itself to such a set-up, it works for us.

 

 

There are some things that are working in your favor here...

 

1. The booth is at audience level

 

2. The openings are large

 

If I had done the installation, I would have installed the speakers on the back side of the beamsso the bottoms were flush with the beam bottoms. Two reasons for this... first the sightlines would have been a lot cleaner, and second there would have been a little bit of LF extension that benefits the JF's greatly. I assume that the speakers are on delay zones ?

[blsmn]

 

There are some things that are working in your favor here... 1. The booth is at audience level 2. The openings are large If I had done the installation, I would have installed the speakers on the back side of the beamsso the bottoms were flush with the beam bottoms. Two reasons for this... first the sightlines would have been a lot cleaner, and second there would have been a little bit of LF extension that benefits the JF's greatly. I assume that the speakers are on delay zones ?

 

 

Well, when the space was redone from a "team teaching room" into an actual working theatre space I had the luxury of having that tech booth built to my specs so I made sure there were large enough openings to accomodate the sound issue and still be able to be locked up. The issue with the JF60 placement was due primarily to the AC units between beams and where the first row of speakers is placed - if I stand downstage all the way the first row is right above my head and to get the other two rows evenly spaced it worked out as you see it. I surely wish I could have tucked them up further as I have to throw my FOH lighting around and sometimes through the first row - but it came down to a compromise with the architects who insisted there be 4 AC units in the house - 2 of which now I seldom if ever use:mad:

 

Yes, they are delayed - the system is controlled by a Driverack 260. Subs are SBX220's under the stage - isolated extremely well but they still do have their little nuances in a few spots on stage. All in all, it is a pretty sweet little system for most of our needs - when we have something bigger come in I just rent. I think the real advantage to the room is all the sound dampening material on the walls - although our choir teacher just hates it:lol: A lot of the acts that come through compare it to playing in a recording studio - I like it that way:thu: Only issue is I could use a couple bass traps at the very back of the aisles though - but nobody sits back there anyway so it isn't high on my priority list right now..

[agedhorse]

 

but it came down to a compromise with the architects who insisted there be 4 AC units in the house - 2 of which now I seldom if ever use:mad:.

 

 

Freekin' architects... just eliminated 80 tons of AC on a project I am working on. Even now, it's pretty over-cooled. Mechanical Engineer is pretty pissed at me over this too, but I showed the client that his calcs made some pretty broad assumptions that multiplied out several times over. The main reason for reducing the load was so that I could re-use the 2000A 3ph service to the site as upgrading this would have added over $250k to the project as a single line item and has a turn-around time of about 3 years. The fact that the change will save them another $100k on the mechanical contract more than paid my entire engineering fee for the entire project. That made the client very pleased. The butt-hurt ME will have to get over it because the client is hip to his game.

[dennis a]

 

.

 

 

How many subs are there? Can they be set up in a cardioid configuration?

 

Dennis

[blsmn]

 

How many subs are there? Can they be set up in a cardioid configuration? Dennis

 

 

2 subs - one on each side basically firing right up the aisles. Not the most even low end distribution - it would be killing the first 4 rows to get it sounding like I'd like toward the back of the room. I'm looking into ways to more evenly distribute the bottom - maybe hanging some smallers boxes from the same beams as the JF60's. Don't want to hijack this thread though - I am going to start another with pics to get some suggestions from the crew here...