Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Still getting some amp clipping on my subs but still have the power issue in the bar as well. I am running 2 EV T18 subs @ 4 ohms a side for 1200 watts. Speakers rated @ 400 watts and I am sending 600 to each. I know it's pushing it a little high. But since my subs don't go below 40hz would NOT having the subsonic Filter engaged cause it to clip. I asked as I didn't have this problem before but I think they may have been turned off accidently. I guess it would also be a good idea to make sure the Limiter switch was engaged as well. I will check the amps out tomorrow but based on what you all tell me would go along way to fix my problem. Meaning if you say yes they will clip and the Sub filter is off that would point to the likely problem. I am still getting bad info regarding power in this town lol. I was told by Peavey and backed up here to not exceed 125% of the speaker RMS which would be 500 watts for my application so I know 600 is a little high. I have posed this question to some locals and they say I need to run the amp with a 8 ohm load per side because it is 750 a side that way and getting me closer to the 2x the power of 800. I am getting tired of explaining to them what a bad idea that is lol. If 600 is clipping what will 750 do lol!! I really hope it's that sub filter switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 EDS looks to me like those subs don't go below 50hz - unless maybe if you cluster two or more? IME the typical single (and even two CV Earthquake's clustered) horn loaded cab sounds like arse and suck up power if you don't HPF them at 50hz. Try it - you might like it . With 1.5x the continuous power I'd personally not be too concerned if the clip limiter lights flash slightly on the kicks - YMMV . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 I would not go any higher than 600 watts, and without a HPF even that is pushing it IMO. Always engage the HPF (50Hz is appropriate for those boxes) and the limiter. If you were to go to 800 watts per box, the liklihood of damage is considerably greater. I absoluetly would not recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thanks guys. So are you saying that yes those amps WILL clip if the sub filter and limiter are NOT engaged. I just want to make sure I understand. It is easy to misunderstand someone on the internet. Agedhorse don't worry brother. You have beat that into my head. I WILL NOT run any more wattage than I already am and I do know that it is a touch too much. 500 watts a side would be better. I know despite what everyone in town here tells me that 2x the power is a marketing ploy. Everytime one of them says go to this amps website or go to Sweetwaters PA guide I have to remind them those are all companys that stand to gain by selling you a bigger amp lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Any amp will clip (or limit) easier with the HPF NOT engaged. All that power is wasted moving the driver into unsafe territory. Engaging the clip limiter helps keep things under control once you reach the limits. When the amp clips, the output stage loses control over the signal and damping disappears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thanks for putting that in terms I can understand. If that is what is happening and it sure does seem likely I can't believe I didn't tear anything up. I guess I probably shortend the speaker or amp life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 I guess I probably shortend the speaker or amp life.Amps don't care much but them speakers can hold a grudge for sure . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Proper processing will allow the speaker to be used with APPROPRIATE watts no matter what the amp size is. The challenge is to get a handle on how to deliver the appropriate power to the speaker ... not what size the amp is. What amps are you using and how do you "know" that they are clipping? Regardless of the answers for my questions, not using a HP filter is probably 5-10 times as likely to burn out your speakers than "overdriving" them x2 even with a clipped signal (and I mean a square wave ... not the occasional flashing of your clip lights) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 EDS looks to me like those subs don't go below 50hz - unless maybe if you cluster two or more? IME the typical single (and even two CV Earthquake's clustered) horn loaded cab sounds like arse and suck up power if you don't HPF them at 50hz. Try it - you might like it . With 1.5x the continuous power I'd personally not be too concerned if the clip limiter lights flash slightly on the kicks - YMMV . Yes I am clustering 2 per side. I am entertaining the idea of selling these (I have 8 of them) and getting something better. Just a quick look on ebay and I saw a pair of EAW528 for 2800 used. Not much EV stuff today. I know how great the JBL SRX728 are and are 1600 watts per cab. My amps only do 1200 a side @ 4ohms. But the JBL MRX528 are 1000 and would appear to be a perfect match to my amps. Are 2 JBL 528's a definant upgrade from running 4 of my EV T18's? I also saw someone here selling 4 Yorkville UCS1s. Even though they are loaded with 15's would 4 of those kick the crap out of my 4 18's? I am running the Yorkville EX2000 2x15 top boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 You are still getting bad info ... or more likely not understanding what is meant exactly. You should never exceed the average power rating of a speaker by any percentage ... but that is not the same thing as what size amp should I hook up to a speaker.You probably missed this ...The challenge is to get a handle on how to deliver the appropriate power to the speaker ... not what size the amp is.What amps are you using and how do you "know" that they are clipping?Regardless of the answers for my questions, not using a HP filter is probably 5-10 times as likely to burn out your speakers than "overdriving" them x2 even with a clipped signal (and I mean a square wave ... not the occasional flashing of your clip lights) Yorkville AP4040's. I seen the clips lights engage. The first 2 times we used the PA it did not clip but we had a issue with the x-over and changed it out to a DBX. I think in doing so the amps sub filter was disengaged but I will need to check. Agehorse said 600 is to too much and I agree but wont I lose some of that in travel to the speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 You are missing my point. You need to RUN and check your HP filters ... you will then have lots of time to worry about amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 You are missing my point. You need to RUN and check your HP filters ... you will then have lots of time to worry about amps. No I am with you. That is the absolute first thing I will do. I was only curious about the power loss. Someone mentioned that to me so I thought I would ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yes I am clustering 2 per side.Don't know for sure but I'd try a 45hz HPF then? With four per side in a block 2x2 you might get to 40hz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 40Hz is wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 40Hz is wishful thinking.Yah, hence the question marks . What's your guess on a block of two or four? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Yah, hence the question marks . What's your guess on a block of two or four? Maybe 47Hz and 44-45. It's kind of a guess, as how they are mounted will also affect response. There are both coupling and boundery variables involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 6, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Getting ready to show my best newbie. On the back it has a button. In is 40hz and out is 20hz. Where are you getting 45, 47 or 50hz and how do you cut it? From the EQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Is that 20/40 button on your amp? What make/model? The most common amps have a switchable 30/50hz HPF. I think the consensus is that 50 would be best but if all you have is 40 I guess that will have to do. Most of us also have a "Loudspeaker Management System" AKA "DSP" AKA "Driverack" that has fully adjustable HPFs, crossovers, speaker EQ and other goodies (and not-so-goodies) in it. Also some graphic EQs have an adjustable HPF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Couldn't you just take the eq sliders from 40 and down and max them down to create a HPF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Couldn't you just take the eq sliders from 40 and down and max them down to create a HPF? That is exactly what I used to do back in the old days before I got into subs and crossovers, with the EQ used in the plus minus 12 db function mode. I would also slide down the frequencies above 50 hz up to 120 hz in a tapered slope when if I was running out of amp, with those 250 rms @ 8 ohm amps back then. You could safely get a few more db out of the amp that way and go easier on the speakers. Big 400 rms @ 8 ohm amps were very expensive in the early 80s and I was paying off a Mortgage. Think $1500 CDN plus in the day...that was alot of money. Like $6000 in today's cash. The speaker everyone wanted was the 15" JBL Cabaret that had the E-140 that had been replaced with a Gauss.... Can't remember if it was the 4581 or 4583....but they were affordable second hand and they were the {censored}. SR4725s were for rich ppl.:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 6, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Well if that is the case I can have thae amp cut out anything below 40hz. I could pull 50hz down on the foh eq manually to achieve where I need to be. Does that sound like the way to go? I know 20 and 30 are dipped already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Couldn't you just take the eq sliders from 40 and down and max them down to create a HPF? Better than nothing ... but it's not the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 What amp are you using. Let's sort this out before you blow something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 I could pull 50hz down on the foh eq manually to achieve where I need to be. Does that sound like the way to go? I know 20 and 30 are dipped already.No, you want to cut the ones below 50 and maybe even boost 50 a tiny bit (1-2db) to compensate for the overlap on the lower ones pulling some 50hz out. That 20/30 button works the same way, only effecting the frequencies below the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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