Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 Some of you will remember me posting several weeks ago about amps clipping and weak low end. So I admit to putting the amps on a power conditioner and after deleting that the thump was back. Seems we were starving the amps. Well last week I start another thread about the amps still clipping and everyone tells me to check the HPF and the limiters. I am a moron:facepalm: First, all 3 amps limiters were defeated and the HPF set on 20hz. I took one look at the amps and got a sick feeling in my stomach. I cannot believe we didn't fry everything. Certainly explains the clipping. So I call our soundman up who is a studio guy and a great knob turner and tell him. Obviously he doesn't know much more than me on how this stuff actually works. He admits to turning it all off when we were having the weak low end problem thinking that was the problem. Well everthing still works. I am sure we shortened the life of those drivers. I am still shocked that we didn't destroy everything. I can see why you pros get frustrated with guys like me. I am lucky that my pa still works but sometimes experience is the best lesson. That is a mistake that will never happen again. I certainly do appreciate all the questions you all answer for me. No I will probably never know the math on all this stuff but I feel much better equipped today than I did say 8 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 Good for you. You should turn on your sound man to this site for information. Glad it worked out for you in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, eh? Consider your wrist figuratively slapped. I'm just guessing though that this is something that will never go overlooked with you again, so in the end, a valuable experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 There ain't no shame in ignorance - we are all ignorant about stuff. We all was born that way and will all die that way. The first step is admitting you have a problem . Socrates useta amuse himself goin' 'round telling folks he was ignorant. Now stoopid is another thing - for those who don't know the difference: "Ignorance can be fixed but stoopid is forever!" Welcome to the School of Hard Knocks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 11, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 It's not as if you shut the limiter and HPF off. You've been trying to learn as much as you can, and unlike some who visit (who thankfully are the minority), you've accepted the advice offered, even if you question it first in order to understand it more....there's a difference between questioning and pushing back. The latter is what raises hackles. Nobody like to be asked for help, and then have their answers accused of being wrong. You've never done that as far as I've seen. It takes a big person to come to a place and admit to a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Most folks learn more from their mistakes than their successes. I know that I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hegmatronicon Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 I come on this site specifically to learn from OTHER ppl's mistakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 I come on this site specifically to learn from OTHER ppl's mistakes! It's certainly cheaper this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 I wouldn't let that soundguy touch any more of the gear except the knobs on the board. Glad you didn't blow anything up. Live & learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Mistakes are the best way to learn, I make plenty of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 No worries - good attitude, and you didn't burn out your stuff. We had a guy here back a while who seemed like a pretty smart guy (stuff he said generally made sense), but once in awhile some technical subject would come up where he didn't have a clue, but felt he had to say something anyway. A couple of pages in the thread later he'd be blustering out insane nonsense, claiming it was everybody else who "should reconsider working in audio". I'd rather have somebody who just said "I'm stupid, now what?" when faced with not knowing something. Those people are still capable of learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 "Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 "Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment." That's brilliant... and somehow I've never heard it before. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 OK here's your beating. How could have possibly let that slide? As for myself I have never in all of my career blown up a driver. I am so meticulous that all of my speakers are phase aligned up to & beyond 16k at every point in the room. I'm starting a new career in Real Estate. I have a hot deal on a couple of bridges in N.Y. Let me know if your interested. I'm glad you learned something. I'd bet your sound guy learned something too. Don't fire the guy or anything. As long as he took the lesson to heart, it's a good experiance for both of you. No harm, No foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 It's not as if you shut the limiter and HPF off. You've been trying to learn as much as you can, and unlike some who visit (who thankfully are the minority), you've accepted the advice offered, even if you question it first in order to understand it more....there's a difference between questioning and pushing back. The latter is what raises hackles. Nobody like to be asked for help, and then have their answers accused of being wrong. You've never done that as far as I've seen. It takes a big person to come to a place and admit to a mistake. Actually if there is one person I need to apologize to it is Andy (Agedhorse). I thought I did so in another thread a while back but my memory isn't the greatest so if that is not the case then I apologize. In case you all don't remember my first post here it was about some Peavey HC118 BW subs. I mentioned something about putting 1000 watts a speaker to them lol!!! What an idiot I was but I swear thats what everyone in this town tells me to this day. Even 3 to 4 times the RMS. I get tired of fussing with them because I am not good eough to explain why thats a bad idea. Anyway Andy and I sort of get into it. I never said he was wrong but I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me and it went against what I had always heard. I didn't know who he was and Andy can be very blunt sometimes lol. I think he thought I was some arrogant know it all guitar player who bought crappy gear lol! He was right about the gear for sure. Some of it I made work like some comps and gates. Some got reassigned. I bought with my eyes lol. A JBL TR225 top box because it said JBL. That was going to be my FOH lol. That got changed and now serves as a drum box where it actually does a decent job. Anyway to Andy's credit he put up with me. Now a little bit of knowledge is starting to make it's way in. I am still going to pop off with a dumb statement or not explain myself very well but I appreciate all the help. The info you guys GIVE to us newbies is priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 OK here's your beating. How could have possibly let that slide? As for myself I have never in all of my career blown up a driver. I am so meticulous that all of my speakers are phase aligned up to & beyond 16k at every point in the room. I'm starting a new career in Real Estate. I have a hot deal on a couple of bridges in N.Y. Let me know if your interested. I'm glad you learned something. I'd bet your sound guy learned something too. Don't fire the guy or anything. As long as he took the lesson to heart, it's a good experiance for both of you. No harm, No foul. No he is a really good friend and has gone out of his way to help me. I bought my 8 EV subs, 2 Yorkville Top boxes, 3 AP4040s with distro and ALL the cabling (Speaker, snake and mic) for 500.00 bucks lol. I still get giddy saying that. He helped secure the deal. Why did I get it so cheap? It was stored in a facility that sheared Alpacka's (sp) and was covered in hair lol. We spent 8 hours cleaning out everything and he has serious allergys but stayed to help me. His wife wasn't as understanding after smelling him lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 I will always give folks just enough rope... Actually, there are several folks here who went through exactly what you went through, maybe I was kinder and gentler with them and maybe I wasn't For the most part, those folks made the decision to study and learn and learn some more. One thing they learned was that there is a lot of bad or out of context information out there and folks do blow sh*t up all the time. Now some of them have really taken the next step and are answering questions with some real though processes and this leads to better troubleshooting and ultimately much better and more reliable sound. That's the goal of most of us old f*cks here on this forum. There are some very intelligent and experienced contributors here, some are more available than others, but it's kind of unique on a forum like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 There ain't no shame in ignorance - we are all ignorant about stuff. We all was born that way and will all die that way. The first step is admitting you have a problem . YES....The first of the true levels of learning is indeed Concious Incompetancy. Technically it is called the second level of learning in that it means that you don't know what you are doing but you know that you don't know. At that point you are ready to learn something. The first official level of learning is called Unconcious Incompetancy and that means that you don't know what you are doing, and are so ignorant so as not to realize that you don't know anything at all. It's nickname is "Blissfully Ignorant".:poke: It is truly amazing how much humility an admission of ignorance brings out in one's mentors. The very wise here are forgiving of the lost, as they were forgiven....Many, many years ago! This is indeed a forum where wisdom born out of considerable experience abounds. Interstingly enough the "Pros" on another forum always sound as if they are recommending amplification right from the QSC amp specifier.....which seems to bring universal agreement. That is what is known as "Pluralistic Ignorance". Reconers like Andy make a very good living from that viewpoint!:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Reconers like Andy make a very good living from that viewpoint! :lol: You bet... the number of stretched and floppy suspension components are getting higher and higher all the time. In fact, I would be very cautious buying used subs and even top cabinets these days, many have been beaten to within an inch of their lives. Had a guy recently who came in here with some EAW sub cabinets he just bought used and he said the AMP sounded terrible. Turns out the speakers were so floppy and soft that the drivers were completely de-tuned to the cabinets. 8 recones and about $2k later, he was back in business but the deal he got on the subs was not the deal he thought. The guy he bought them from probably didn't know he destroyed the drivers, after all they still made noise and a faint farty boom-boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 There's an old joke about the kid who went away to college and was amazed how much his father had learned in 4 years. My late father passed away a couple of years ago at 97. He was the kind of guy that could say a lot with a little "cliche." The one that comes to mind is " A smart man learns from his mistakes, but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others." I pay attention when someone talks of their previous failures. Guess he knew what he was talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted February 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 You bet... the number of stretched and floppy suspension components are getting higher and higher all the time. In fact, I would be very cautious buying used subs and even top cabinets these days, many have been beaten to within an inch of their lives. Yep. I got lucky that all my subs worked and I am taking another chance with the 528s I am buying but for 1200 bucks it was hard to pass them up and I was assured that they were taken care of. I guess we will see. I actually turned down some Yorkville ES1004s because 3 of the 4 drivers had been reconed. Sounds like operater error to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jkm Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Farty Boom - Boom great band name also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Mistakes are the best way to learn, I make plenty of them! If that's the best way, I must be a genius by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Genius????? I relate better to "idiot savant." LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allexcosta Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Because of stuff like this I use powered speakers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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