Headset Mics...why do they sound so bad?

[DBR]

Hello folks,

I have ran across so many shotty sounding headset microphones and most of them are IMHO. They are so hard to eq. No matter what you do with them, there always seems to be no highs and lows but all midrange - tinny garble from these mics. Is there a quality model on the market or are they all {censored}e.:

blah: :blah:

[TimmyP]

That's certainly not how I'd describe the sound of the Countryman E6. The MicrophoneMadness mics are said to be pretty good as well.

[Tomm Williams]

I have a crown cm311 for drummers. I have no complaints. TW

[Dogoth]

It's harder (not impossible though) to get good LF frequency response from a tiny digaphram (a few notable exceptions would be the countryman isomax line and earthworks mics).

 

It's like trying to get deep bass from a 10" speaker. It can be done by allowing for deeper excursions of the cone/digaphram but usualy at the expense of linearity and power handeling. In the case of a active microphones (I.E. condensers) it can be done using equalization but that's at the expense of noise floor (and usualy not as good as having the proper transducer in the first place).

 

That's my guess anyhow.

[jwlussow]

Maybe the thread should be changed to " Cheap Headset Mics...why do they sound like crap?". The ones we use sound great.

[BenBroChill]

I use all countrymans. E6's and a few Isomax. They all sound great. Love them all and their customer service is impeccable.

[agedhorse]

It really depends. I have no trouble w/ quite a few (good) headsets, but yes there is a bunch of junk out there.

 

Anybody looking for a CM-311 wired for Shure TA4F wireless? I have a near new one looking for a new home...

 

(even I am getting tired of looking at all this surplus gear... I have to clear stuff out!)

[Axisplayer]

If it was wired for my ATW3000 I might take it for a decent price. I need one, but don't yet need it enough to cough up the $255 that Northern Sound wants for it shipped to the door.

[DBR]

Thanks for all of the responses...I'll recommend the users of these style mics to try them out instead of the ones they are using now.

[PrActical_AV]

I currently use the Microphone Madness dual and have no complaints. Prior to the dual, I used the Countryman and the AT and enjoyed the sound quality of both, but went with the Microphone Madness because of replacement price and the dual ear loops as users have less of a fit issue. I actually think that the Microphone Madness dual has less GBF than the Countryman without any compromise in sound quality.

 

For high GBF, the Crown CM-311 is awesome, but it's also way more visible to the audience.

[agedhorse]

 

If it was wired for my ATW3000 I might take it for a decent price. I need one, but don't yet need it enough to cough up the $255 that Northern Sound wants for it shipped to the door.

 

 

Oh well.

[VanHalen]

Hello folks, I have ran across so many shotty sounding headset microphones and most of them are IMHO. They are so hard to eq. No matter what you do with them, there always seems to be no highs and lows but all midrange - tinny garble from these mics. Is there a quality model on the market or are they all {censored}e.: blah: :blah:

 

I have to agree. As a drummer I have tried three or four different units, and they all had a lot to be desired. The main problem is the frequency response. A Shure SM58 handheld mic covers 50hz-15khz, while the headset mics usually only cover 100hz-10khz. There are a few exceptions, but I've noticed that the ones with wider frequency response seem to have more noise issues - you can't even move your head without pops and crackles coming out of the p.a. system.

 

[W. M. Hellinger]

Hello folks, I have ran across so many shotty sounding headset microphones and most of them are IMHO. They are so hard to eq. No matter what you do with them, there always seems to be no highs and lows but all midrange - tinny garble from these mics. Is there a quality model on the market or are they all {censored}e.: blah: :blah:

 

Are these shoddy sounding headset mic generally corded, or are they wireless?

 

IME, it seems like in-order to get the same sonic quality in a wireless mic, the cost is approx. 5 times more than the equivalent in a wired (corded) mic. Example: Shure SLX SM-58 UHF mic systems seem to be available for somewhere around $600. Regular (corded) SM-58 mics seem to be commonly available for right around $100.

 

Point being: Judging a $100 wired mic against a $100 wireless system... well... it's probably not a fair comparison.

[VanHalen]

Point being: Judging a $100 wired mic against a $100 wireless system... well... it's probably not a fair comparison.

 

I think the topic is about headset mic quality, not wireless vs. wired quality. Just the mic itself.

 

[dennis a]

I think the topic is about headset mic quality, not wireless vs. wired quality. Just the mic itself.

It's kind of hard to separate the two...you didn't say if the mics you tested were wireless or wired.

 

Dennis

[MrKnobs]

Hello folks, I have ran across so many shotty sounding headset microphones and most of them are IMHO. They are so hard to eq. No matter what you do with them, there always seems to be no highs and lows but all midrange - tinny garble from these mics. Is there a quality model on the market or are they all {censored}e.: blah: :blah:

 

Small dog, small bark. Big dog, big bark.

 

Simple as that, really.

 

Terry D.

[Scodiddly]

We use Countryman E6's when budget is a concern, DPA 4066 when there's more money available. No complaints at all about the DPA! The E6 is pretty damn good as well.

 

On the other hand I did sound once where the drummer had some cheap AT headset, and even the promoter thought it sounded like crap. Cheap headset mics are pretty bad.

[agedhorse]

AT makes good headsets and poor headsets, just like everybody else. It really depends on the application. While I do not like the sound of the Audio Technica Pro 8 headset, I use them all the time because they are a dynamic and relatively impervious to humidity and sweat. They also hold up to very hard use in a hostile environment that the condensers just don's work well in. The ATM 73 & 75 are pretty good sounding, the 892 is outstanding but completely different applications.

[IsildursBane]

Not to hijack the thread, but assuming the cable is running from a wireless pack under the speaker's shirt and out the collar, how do you guys keep the cable from tugging on the earpiece and dislodging it? At the church where I mix, we recently moved from a lav to a headset (the aforementioned Microphone Madness), and wire-tugging was one of the first problems encountered. They started using some black clip to clip the wire to the back of the collar - functionally it works, but aesthetically, it's pretty hideous IMO. I have to imagine there's something a little more elegant (or at least less conspicuous)

 

-Dan.

[dennis a]

Most of the Lav or headset mics I have come across have collar clips included. The Countryman E6 have them in white or black.

 

Dennis

[samkokajko]

There's a white clip.

 

That's the best solution really unless you are up for trying medical tape.

 

For theatre gigs we always use small pieces of tape in front and behind the ear and then one on the back of the neck to hold the wire. For church gigs we just use a clip on the back of the collar.

[karlw]

 

It's harder (not impossible though) to get good LF frequency response from a tiny digaphram (a few notable exceptions would be the countryman isomax line and earthworks mics). It's like trying to get deep bass from a 10" speaker. It can be done by allowing for deeper excursions of the cone/digaphram but usualy at the expense of linearity and power handeling. In the case of a active microphones (I.E. condensers) it can be done using equalization but that's at the expense of noise floor (and usualy not as good as having the proper transducer in the first place). That's my guess anyhow.

 

 

It doesn't work that way. Small-element microphones, down to 1/4" or even smaller can and routinely do reproduce low frequency information very well. Ever listen to a DPA 4099? 1/8" element and studio quality sound.

 

One problem with headset mics is placement and directionality. Omni capsules work best for the vocal sound because they do not exhibit proximity effect - i.e. they don't change the sound radically when you move them closer or further from the voice. However, because they are omni, they A) don't respond in the way that directional mics do (almost all of what we use on stage are directional mics) and B) they pick up ambient sounds much more. SO, to use an omni, you'll be fighting gain before feedback in several ways, including EQ-ing the hell out of it. This can and often does equate to rotten sound.

 

Using directional headset mics can help, and there some good ones out there. the DPA4088 is incredible, as an example. But placement becomes critical due to proximity effect. And if you move your mouth relative to the mic element, the sound will change quite a bit.

 

Then, there are headset mics that are directional and "compensated" or even "noise canceling" by use of a specially-tuned figure-8 capsule. They have very strong proximity effect and need to be placed very carefully and kept in place relative to the mouth. They can work, but often these are designed for greater gain-before-feedback and sound quality is a 2nd consideration. They fare better when used in communication applications, which is where you most often see them.

[JoeDirt]

 

The main problem is the frequency response. A Shure SM58 handheld mic covers 50hz-15khz, while the headset mics usually only cover 100hz-10khz.

 

 

My Crown CM-311A specs specs out at 50Hz - 17kHz frequency response.

 

Zero odd noises from this. Sure it is big looking, but who cares. It works great and has excellent gain before feedback.

[Dogoth]

 

It doesn't work that way. Small-element microphones, down to 1/4" or even smaller can and routinely do reproduce low frequency information very well. Ever listen to a DPA 4099? 1/8" element and studio quality sound. One problem with headset mics is placement and directionality. Omni capsules work best for the vocal sound because they do not exhibit proximity effect - i.e. they don't change the sound radically when you move them closer or further from the voice. However, because they are omni, they A) don't respond in the way that directional mics do (almost all of what we use on stage are directional mics) and B) they pick up ambient sounds much more. SO, to use an omni, you'll be fighting gain before feedback in several ways, including EQ-ing the hell out of it. This can and often does equate to rotten sound. Using directional headset mics can help, and there some good ones out there. the DPA4088 is incredible, as an example. But placement becomes critical due to proximity effect. And if you move your mouth relative to the mic element, the sound will change quite a bit. Then, there are headset mics that are directional and "compensated" or even "noise canceling" by use of a specially-tuned figure-8 capsule. They have very strong proximity effect and need to be placed very carefully and kept in place relative to the mouth. They can work, but often these are designed for greater gain-before-feedback and sound quality is a 2nd consideration. They fare better when used in communication applications, which is where you most often see them.

 

 

It does work that way. Most of the mics with a dia smaller than 1/4' are not flat at all down below 150hz. It's usualy more like -10@60hz (If they are near flat it's either due to equalization (more noise) or construction that limits their SPL handling ability). Anything made by DPA is of course exceptional (and rarely much under $1k either). I did say there were exceptions. I made a post about 3-4 months ago about this same head worn mic subject (patterns/placment/poping). You are correct that the tighter the pattern the more proximity effect. It's sort of a tradeoff in that you can get an omni mic closer to the breath blast zone (before bottoming out the digaphram) than a tighter patterned mic (more initial average gain from the mic). So which gives better GBF? It depends on the mic. Yes there are better/flatter mics that will give you much more GBF but they don't come cheap (these are the exceptional ones (some of the Crown mics are in this catagory as well)). If the application doesn't demand a headset mic, then a good handheld is a MUCH more cost effective option (IMO about a 6:1 cost:sound quality ratio). IMHO, in the end a match head sized digaphram will never sound as good as a decent quality hand held mic. It's just physics.

[agedhorse]

I think Karl's comment relates primarily to omnidirectional elements, though low frequency response can be tailored via enclosure/housing and aperature geometry. Also, low frequency overload SPL may suffer with small elements and the raw electrical signal level will be lower.